Author Topic: Making money off of you  (Read 6216 times)

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[TKC]Symantic

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Re: Making money off of you
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2007, 06:35:38 am »
Z, im going to do you one better, fish and pork every state.
Enjoy your creative game-play, whatever that may include.

ZOldDude

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Re: Making money off of you
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2007, 07:20:33 am »
Anyhow back to the Sig tools being used as a way to make cheats "official" Suma said:
Quote
Suma
ArmA Lead Programmer



Group: BI Forum Team
Posts: 2968
Joined: June 2001  Posted: Sep. 22 2007,21:13 

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Given no game developer was able to come up with a reliable copy and reverse engineering protection for their own games, I afraid expecting to get this for user content is simply not realistic, and I am convinced it will not become possible until some trusted computing platform (like MS Palladium proposed some time ago) will be widely adopted. As the trusted computing faces a lot of opposition, I think you will have to wait very long for this.

Currently no reliable encryption is possible, because the game needs to be able to decrypt the data, and as long as anyone can reverse engineer the game, anyone can get the decryption key. Hacking any such encryption is so easy it is simply not worth implementing it.

 

So as it is not -worth- trying to -protect- maps/mods/core .exe I wonder why they even bothered to try.
All they have done is provide a way to make cheats undetectable on server with the "Sig Protection System" being used.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2007, 07:26:24 am by ZOldDude »

*While we crash and burn, small, low tech, agrarian societies such as the Hmong in the mountains of Laos will continue on without so much as blinking an eye.*

strykir

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Re: Making money off of you
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2007, 03:50:26 pm »
Anyhow back to the Sig tools being used as a way to make cheats "official" Suma said:
Quote
Suma
ArmA Lead Programmer



Group: BI Forum Team
Posts: 2968
Joined: June 2001  Posted: Sep. 22 2007,21:13 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Given no game developer was able to come up with a reliable copy and reverse engineering protection for their own games, I afraid expecting to get this for user content is simply not realistic, and I am convinced it will not become possible until some trusted computing platform (like MS Palladium proposed some time ago) will be widely adopted. As the trusted computing faces a lot of opposition, I think you will have to wait very long for this.

Currently no reliable encryption is possible, because the game needs to be able to decrypt the data, and as long as anyone can reverse engineer the game, anyone can get the decryption key. Hacking any such encryption is so easy it is simply not worth implementing it.

 

So as it is not -worth- trying to -protect- maps/mods/core .exe I wonder why they even bothered to try.
All they have done is provide a way to make cheats undetectable on server with the "Sig Protection System" being used.

That topic wasn't about cheat prevention, Suma wasn't referring to cheats. Read it again  :icon_razz2
Yea I know what you're trying to say though. No perfect way to get rid of cheats. But at least it has the potential to slow them down enough for the rest of us to enjoy the game. If they didn't try to slow cheats down, the situation could be worse (hell, it is already terrible!).

ZOldDude

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Re: Making money off of you
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2007, 06:19:20 pm »
Yeah...he is just acknowledging the fact that -any form of encryption- that a program uses that needs to be read is a waste of time as the program it's self has the information to decrypt it.

My point was that the Sig tools can now be used to spoof the "Sig key" of any part of the game,mission,map,mod and all cheats could be placed into any of these while "protected servers" accept them as -genuine-.

As the ArmA community is under 1,000 on-line players on a weekend I hope this modded tool set is not made public for a few months.

*While we crash and burn, small, low tech, agrarian societies such as the Hmong in the mountains of Laos will continue on without so much as blinking an eye.*

strykir

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Re: Making money off of you
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2007, 11:51:16 pm »
Yeah...he is just acknowledging the fact that -any form of encryption- that a program uses that needs to be read is a waste of time as the program it's self has the information to decrypt it.
Not a complete waste of time, since if it is made well enough then it can take time to crack. That time can still be useful. Although most copy protections for games are a complete waste of money since they get cracked in no time, it's just a failed attempt by publishers to get a few extra sales.

My point was that the Sig tools can now be used to spoof the "Sig key" of any part of the game,mission,map,mod and all cheats could be placed into any of these while "protected servers" accept them as -genuine-.

As the ArmA community is under 1,000 on-line players on a weekend I hope this modded tool set is not made public for a few months.
That's pretty sad IMO. Releasing those sig spoof programs would do some serious damage to ArmA MP.
How would a server then be able to stay cheat-free? And I'm still wondering where exactly you get this info?

strykir

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Re: Making money off of you
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2007, 05:54:16 pm »
Suma's post: http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?s=bf875bd4eae1fa06f6a88c244460a0ab;act=ST;f=67;t=68468;st=30

 :icon_laugh

ZOldDude, I'm wondering if you are actually telling the truth about cracking the signatures. Or is it done a different way?

ZOldDude

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Re: Making money off of you
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2007, 07:22:33 pm »
 :icon_rolleyes2
It is easyer than most people think.

Under his post Matt says:
Quote
Yeah Suma. No Pbo can depbo my pbos without the know how to create them.
His protection does not protect from everyone.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 07:28:39 pm by ZOldDude »

*While we crash and burn, small, low tech, agrarian societies such as the Hmong in the mountains of Laos will continue on without so much as blinking an eye.*

strykir

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Re: Making money off of you
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2007, 07:36:49 pm »
:icon_rolleyes2
So you don't know any more or don't want to say anymore then?
If you really are able to get addons past signature checks, then it must be by some other way, not by duplicating someone else's signature. Then if that is released, it should be possible for BIS to fix the exploit. Am I getting close?

Or are you just going to keep this all a secret?

[TKC]Wesker

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Re: Making money off of you
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2007, 08:14:18 pm »
Or are you just going to keep this all a secret?
Lol another pitiful attempt for inside info. You really don't get it do you.

Anyway later I'll demonstrate in a video me joining a BI signed server with maybe some nuke nades & super damage bullets.  :wink2

The Illusive Man

strykir

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Re: Making money off of you
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2007, 08:22:12 pm »
Lol another pitiful attempt for inside info. You really don't need to know how.
:icon_rolleyes2

Quote
Anyway later I'll demonstrate in a video me joining a BI signed server with maybe some nuke nades & super damage bullets.  :wink2
Yipee  :icon_rolleyes2
As long as some of the more major exploits are solved and we can admin servers properly, I'll be happy  :smile
I'm sure you are just using some kind of exploit to do this, instead of actually being able to sign addons with other people's signitures. I just want to know if I'm right. Or is this really a big secret?

[TKC]Wesker

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Re: Making money off of you
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2007, 08:25:44 pm »
I'm sure you are just using some kind of exploit to do this, instead of actually being able to sign addons with other people's signitures.
Regardless of what you may think the video will show modified files running happily on a signed server.
What more is there to discuss?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 08:35:17 pm by [TKC]Wesker »

The Illusive Man

strykir

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Re: Making money off of you
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2007, 08:45:46 pm »
I'm sure you are just using some kind of exploit to do this, instead of actually being able to sign addons with other people's signitures.
Regardless of what you may think the video will show modified files running happily on a signed server.
What more is there to discuss?
I just wanted to know how it was done, that's all. If it's just an exploit, then it may not exist for much longer. If you really cracked the sig system (unlikely based on Suma's post), then it would be more serious.
Well since you wont answer me I'll just assume that I'm right :smile

[TKC]Wesker

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Re: Making money off of you
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2007, 08:56:13 pm »
Well since you wont answer me I'll just assume that I'm right :smile
Only time will tell.

I predict
1.08 = sigs cracked
1.09 = sigs cracked
1.10 = sigs cracked
1.11 = sigs cracked

No matter how many ArmA updates or security fixes the answer will be the same.
I'm saying that because that's how confident I am. If I'm wrong you can always come back here in the future and say "Haha, Wesker was wrong"  :icon_laugh

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strykir

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Re: Making money off of you
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2007, 09:28:42 pm »
Well since you wont answer me I'll just assume that I'm right :smile
Only time will tell.

I predict
1.08 = sigs cracked
1.09 = sigs cracked
1.10 = sigs cracked
1.11 = sigs cracked

No matter how many ArmA updates or security fixes the answer will be the same.
I'm saying that because that's how confident I am. If I'm wrong you can always come back here in the future and say "Haha, Wesker was wrong"  :icon_laugh
Technically it's not the sigs you cracked, but a way around the verification system I bet. And yea, I'm sure you will dedicate you sad little life to make game cheats :icon_razz2
I'm not so sure there will be many, or any, patches after 1.09. It just doesn't seem worth it for BIS. Would be nice, but I don't expect it. That's going to make your little obsession pretty easy.
Now, are these hacks going to be released? And if so, when? This kind of stuff should never be released IMO, except to the devs.
It's sad that someone can be so desperate just to ruin a game.

[TKC]Wesker

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Re: Making money off of you
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2007, 09:49:35 pm »
Lol, now now Matty no need to get upset, it's only a game.  :icon_laugh
You can claim I waste my life on hacking but the truth is it took less than 20mins of looking at the protection & it was broken.

The Illusive Man