Poll

Do you think that the mexico/ United States Border needs a wall?

Hell yeah
8 (42.1%)
yeah
3 (15.8%)
no
4 (21.1%)
choose not to say.
4 (21.1%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Author Topic: Do you think we should build the wall?  (Read 3034 times)

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[TKC]Symantic

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Do you think we should build the wall?
« on: February 03, 2007, 08:24:07 am »
Do you think we should build a wall all along the mexoco/United States Border?
(dont call me a rascist by saying why not build one on the canada border, my reasoning for this is because canadians dont take over cities and create imigrantory crime, im not calling mexicans theifs and crime ridden scum, im calling undocumented aliens crime ridden scum, im just saying the majority come over the mexican border)

*this meets the criteria for the RIB section, dont move*
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[TKC]Symantic

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Re: Do you think we should build the wall?
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2007, 08:24:38 am »
BUILD THE WALL, ENFORCE THE LAW.
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ZOldDude

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Re: Do you think we should build the wall?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2007, 11:16:40 am »
Well those looking for a better life and with a bit more money do come in from Canada.
Mostly the Asians.

The law in Canada is if you are caught they release you until a trial which is normally in six months....and the northen border is allot easier to come across.

Even Canada has tunnels into Washington state but these are used for drug runners.

The real issue with the southern border is the drug traffic and the lives lost each year in armed conflict with the drug runners.
Not just good Pot but hard core drugs.

I the areas of most traffic there are walls/fences but they are climbed or tunneled under....even at time rushed in mass.

Political oppression,extream poverty and outright raw hunger are a situation that most of us have not faced and so can not understand.
I myself was raised by the good and loving folks who banned together during Americas Great Depression as well as those who fought the Fascists in two world wars.
My own Grandfather (an Arizonian) sold cattel to Pancho Villa to feed his army against the unjust rule of the government of Mexico at that point in time to help free their people of that days evil.

The new Government in Mexico has started a 100% turn around and is ACTIVLY sending in Federal troops after the drug mobs and even the local corrupt police!
I doubt that the long custom of "the payoff" will stop however as Mexico's new government is after the mobs because they commit so many murders.

Clearly a need to do something about the southern boarder needs to be done but building a armed wall like in the movie escape from New York I do not think is the wise answere.

I have thought about the issue myself for years and I do not know what that answere is.

(fixed spelling)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 03:03:16 am by ZOldDude »

*While we crash and burn, small, low tech, agrarian societies such as the Hmong in the mountains of Laos will continue on without so much as blinking an eye.*

[TKC]Symantic

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Re: Do you think we should build the wall?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2007, 08:51:48 pm »
i wish the people who voted would say something.
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M. O.

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Re: Do you think we should build the wall?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2007, 09:31:22 pm »
I think it seems like an ok idea. The mexicans should build up their own country first before they go to places where they think they can get rich fast. I'm sure that they got no other choice in many cases, like they have a family to feed and so on, but they should primarily put pressure on their own government so that they can live in their own country too. There was some kind of revolt in some big city last year, they fought off the police and army for months. If they could do the same in multiple cities they could show that the situation isn't acceptable, even if a majority thinks it's ok having people unemployed or starving.

Illegal immigration also increases the rate of labor competition. Naturally it's bad for people who work, but also good for people who want to employ cheap labour (probably small companies that don't care much about the law).
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ZOldDude

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Re: Do you think we should build the wall?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2007, 03:02:09 am »
The problem with going against the government in Mexico is that if they decide to call it a revolt....you die.
You die at the hands of the Army as no -crime- in Mexico gets a death sentenc.

10-15 years ago a smaller town sent a petition to the government and almost everyone singed it.

The government called that a revolt and for 8 days sent P-51 Mustangs to bomb and machine gun the whole town. When the trucks with Federal army reached the town after 8 days they killed EVERY human in it. The government justified it by calling them "armed rebels".

I did not vote in the poll because I can't find a "not sure" option.

PS:The "revolt" last year was in a LARGE city and simply killing them all would have caused a complete civil war. By the way the root of this last riot was over what many saw as a fixed election.

In any event the people of Mexico have little chance to defend themself against not only the drug mob but the government and it's army....if you own a firearm in Mexico you basically die in jail.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 03:17:38 am by ZOldDude »

*While we crash and burn, small, low tech, agrarian societies such as the Hmong in the mountains of Laos will continue on without so much as blinking an eye.*

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Re: Do you think we should build the wall?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2007, 03:54:15 am »
you can just pay off 90% of the cops
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M. O.

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Re: Do you think we should build the wall?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2007, 03:59:12 am »
Yes there was a big protest against fraudulent elections in the same style as the one in Ukraine. But that's not the one I meant ;)

I mean the revolt in Oaxaca.

Made a search on google:
http://www.oaxacarevolt.org/
http://rwor.org/a/063/oaxaca-en.html

Funny thing is that the news agencies didn't make anything out of it. If the same thing had happened in Cuba or in East Germany (as it was then) there had been headlines (at least here, for a couple of days).
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ZOldDude

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Re: Do you think we should build the wall?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2007, 07:47:13 am »
Quote
For the past couple of years, Oaxaca has witnessed some of the bloodiest repressions unleashed against the campesinos, students, and opposition organizations there. Only months after URO took power in December 2004, 250 police surrounded a community in Santiago Xanica during a communal workday and attempted to massacre the peasants by opening fire on 80 people.

This is part of the problem with any gathering of peaceful protest and how the government deals with it.

If this had been a smaller town the old government would have called them all "armed rebels" and nobody would be alive to say otherwise.

As modern as Mexico is the government has always gained power from support of the drug mob and the currant new governments push to attack the corrupt police and drug mobs may be in a very large part to just "get rid of the competition" so to speak.

In my own lifetime I can remember 3 changes of government in Mexico that took place because some "General" had more of the army on his side than the people in government!

If you live in a large city in Mexico you are a world apart from the rest of the country.

This is one reason that California has a "estimated" 6 million illeagles here in this state alone.
Most of these people just want a better life for themselfs and their children...often as basic of a human need as to not die of starvation. Some ARE criminals in the drug mobs and it is these who cause the crimes by the "illegals" other than the crime of being illeagle.

Mexico's economy took a dive in the 80's when the US stooped buying oil from them due to the high sulfur content.
In just over one year the Peso went from 8.5 per US dollar to 5,000/1.
Things had already been bad for the common person before that and now starvation became an even larger issue.

After a new Paso was made and many factory's with electronics and cars things slowly improved...yet even today a LUCKY person in a Volkswagen or electronic plant earns what comes to about $12 USD a week.
This is a factory workers life.

The problem with most of the buying power and raising prices around the world is due allot to the fact that almost no country uses gold or silver to back up it's money anylonger.

When the US was still on silver standard I can recall being able to buy 5 Big Mac's for just $1.

These are just part of the reasons my sig is what it is and in the next 30-50 years you may expect things world wide to change dramatically...and for most people not for the best:

*While we crash and burn, small, low tech, agrarian societies such as the Hmong in the mountains of Laos will continue on without so much as blinking an eye.*
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 07:56:54 am by ZOldDude »

*While we crash and burn, small, low tech, agrarian societies such as the Hmong in the mountains of Laos will continue on without so much as blinking an eye.*

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Re: Do you think we should build the wall?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2007, 11:28:58 am »
it has nothing to do with the drug mobs, it has to do with poor immigrants/illegals. Same thing happend in new York city when the poles and the Irish came in. but it was easier to regulate those people, the mexico border has no strict regulation. When you have a poor community, it tends to turn to crime and chaos, and who are they stealing from? there stealing from Innocent LEGAL people. yes, some hard working people come over the border, but there are also freeloaders who are here to pop a baby out so they don't get deported, and since they are "citizens", might as well collect welfare checks while they are at it.
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Re: Do you think we should build the wall?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2007, 10:56:12 pm »
Well I am not against people coming here looking for a new life ...even if for better work...Though I have some problems with illegal immigrants taking jobs from the construction fields, I still believe they are just trying to survive and live like myself. I do believe there should be a process... If I want to live and work in the UK I would have to apply for a visa because I am american...lol but they let people from Europe in with no problem...
Granted most people coming from South American countries wouldnt have a problem crossing our border if Mexico would just keep them out from their southern border.....maybe we should just annex the rest of the western hemisphere and eliminate the problem entirely...Then we would all be American...Geopolitics Baby!
Thats right...Take Cuba Back...Raise the Casinos...then go kick the crap out of Chavez down in New Leningrad!
"Blood in the streets...Its up to my ankles"

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Re: Do you think we should build the wall?
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2007, 02:57:43 am »
yeah, they let europeans come here, mostly without a problem because there arent millions of europeans comming over illegaly (and if they are then they are sneaker bastards than we thought)
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Re: Do you think we should build the wall?
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2007, 03:11:15 pm »
The problem in Europe is that many scientists and engineers move to the states because they get (much) higher salaries there. If they're working on some research it's much harder to get it funded here. Many of your leading scientists have been, and are europeans ;)
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Re: Do you think we should build the wall?
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2007, 03:46:43 pm »
The problem in Europe is that many scientists and engineers move to the states because they get (much) higher salaries there. If they're working on some research it's much harder to get it funded here. Many of your leading scientists have been, and are europeans ;)

Yes ALOT of people do even those who earned MORE money in other county's but moved because of much lower Tax's on those earnings given the same skilled work (end result more money for themselfs).

What allot of people here complain about is those who break the law to come here.
I have a sister in law that came here from Guatemala and a girlfriend from Brazil....both are citizens here now and went through the long process to do so via the law and they DISSLIKE those who violate the law very much.

On the topic of what to do about unlawful immigration they like myself may not approve of it but also understand the drive for people to do so.

*While we crash and burn, small, low tech, agrarian societies such as the Hmong in the mountains of Laos will continue on without so much as blinking an eye.*

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Re: Do you think we should build the wall?
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2007, 05:13:03 am »
To add and truthfully I believe that no matter if there were walls, they would be fruitless and a waste of time and money... Stronger Legislation is needed more so in penalties for companies that use illegal labor... I would exclude from going after churches that might feed illegals or house them, they are just doing their christian duty...but I would go after the people who actually gain from illegal immigration... from the coyotes, who smuggle, to the "greedy gringos" who exploit their labor...

This is always going to be a difficult topic since we are a nation of Immigrants, and there are very seldom any clear cut answers for anything.
And yet ever still we need higher security to also keep terrorists out..though most of them probably have visas...when the average border walker does not.

So maybe not a wall...but definitely tougher enforcement of the border ... What do you guys think about what happened to the minutemen at that campus rally/protest?
Personally I believe that is a prime example of the "Tolerance of the Socialist Left" getting stranded in a Redneck Bar... Some people are so openminded that their brains end up falling out! See yas in the Game!
"Blood in the streets...Its up to my ankles"