Author Topic: Amazing!  (Read 6940 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TheHeckler!

  • Guest
Amazing!
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2005, 04:33:16 am »
I was planning on making a longer post, but most of what needs to be said already has. Still, I'll respond to a few of your comment Nane.

Quote from: Nane_Nena
so, you think that because YOU bought a game, YOU may do ANYTHING you want with it on ANY server which ISN'T belonging to YOU?


For the most part, yes.

Quote

Right. Ok, here we go again. You buy a bike, you put it in my backyard, you say: it's my bike I may do whatever I like with it.. WRONG because you are putting in MY backyard.


You are comparing private real life property to a public online gaming server...poor comparison.


Quote

And I am getting quite annoyed at the moment about you guys so called philosophy.


Cry more n00b.

Quote
I repeat just once, I am the hoster (payer,builder,maintainer,etc), YOU are the player, and that makes me on MY server boss above you.


Wrong. No one is the "boss above me" on any server in any game, period.

Quote
You come on my property, you don't behave, I kick your ass, that's the way it works.


Fine, but I have ways of circumventing your kicks and bans, and I will...and that too is the way it works.

Quote

It's your game...copy..
You payed for the game ...copy..
You want to do whatever you like with the game (like cheating) ...copy..
You want to do whatever you like with the game (like cheating) on a server who isn't your own or where the stuff you do isn't tollerated ...WRONG..


Your opinion...the ability to proclaim it with diehard enthusiasm doesn't make it a fact.

Quote

You can ignore this all, as much as you like, but wake up, open your eyes and see the truth


Just because the words are typed through your keyboard, hardly makes them "truth".

Quote

you all make up some nice words and make it look nice, but still you are totally wrong.


Incorrect.

Quote

No matter if you are on a site, a server, a game, in somebodies house or club, you obey their rules, otherwise you get 'kicked out'.


Here you are correct, in general you will get kicked out for not obeying rules. But since we have the desire and ability to stay, we will do so for as long as we'd like and are able, despite your feelings on the matter.

Quote
You talk so much about people not respecting you, so you take actions... well, the problem is mainly that a few guys here do not respect 'us' as in how we play and what we do on our server, so you get kicked/banned.


Nane, trust us...we understand this simple equation even better than you do. The only problem is that this isn't the whole equation, things aren't always that simple...as previously stated, you admins won't always have the pleasure of getting rid of us.

Quote

And that is more valid than your point no matter what view you may have on this.


You couldn't be more wrong.

Quote

That's all I got to say, do whatever you like, run naked through your own home, go fingerpaint your own walls, but stay away from mine.


I'll go to any server I please. If it happens to be yours, I would appreciate it if you'd show me the courtesy of rolling out the red carpet and popping me a salute before I start having my fun.


Quote
oooh I love my ps'es so here's another one:
Besides the whole: "this is my server, and you have to respect my rules" part, the fact still remains that you guys put the pleasure of one man above any other or group of others. This is the highest point of selfishness and respectless behaviour and I hope you guys are so different in your 'reallives', like this head2000 guy states: I guess in reallife someone whould have already smashed your faces in...


Nearly incoherent, I won't bother with this one.

Quote

And hey, it's only pure immaturity that 'because you don't get direct
consequences by acting like this in the 'virtual world' ', you do it.


Ya got me...that's true. But just because you played forum shrink and called me out on it, doesn't mean I'm going to stop.

---

Here's the bottom line on the "who makes the rules debate", it depends on who's got the power. Normally the admin has this power, so naturally he makes the rules...doesn't mean for 1 second we're going to follow them, but he can make them.

However, if I have a cheat/hack/trick that can bypass his ability to kick me off his server, then I make the rules. During my RtCW days, I often managed to turn a normal playing server of 32 or even 64 into a teamkill feast on both sides. I did this one night on a popular server when the admin logged on and saw what was going on. He discovered I was behind it and kicked me...but I of course just returned a minute later.

I was very good at tricking players/admins into kicking the wrong person with name smurfing. When I returned, I called a kick vote against the admin and successfully got him kicked from his own server (very funny and satisfying btw). Some players thought he was actually me and kicked him by accident, some just hit "F1" to get the annoying kick vote off their screen asap, and others were hecklers like myself who wanted to heckle the server. We managed to do this 3 times before he stopped trying to kick the hecklers and instead begged us to stop. I told him if he stopped trying to kick us, We'd let him stay...he reluctantly agreed.

Since he was just about powerless to stop all the hecklers from causing havoc, his rules became null and void. He shortly thereafter left the server in disgust, then we took control. We had teamkill contests to see who could get the lowest score...hide the documents somewhere on the map and make others hunt you down...teach others how to fly using the Lt.'s air strike trick, and other random acts of craziness. The result? Well there were a few players like yourself Nane who insisted we "play right", but they quickly left after they noticed how futile their efforts were. The majority of players stayed and had a blast...many thanked me for the fun they had when they were about to quit playing the game.

In short, our little venture prolonged the gaming experience for dozens of players that night alone (and there were others, many others). And that sort of game rejuvenation for gamers justifies our gameplay style, or at least certain aspects of it.  

As far as the less altruistic motivations for why I do what I do?well simply put, I?m a selfish bastard.   :heckler1

hoax-ravenheckler

  • Master Heckler
  • *****
  • Posts: 2429
  • Still the same old
    • View Profile
Amazing!
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2005, 10:48:50 am »
I think with this post the topic is nearly to his end.
Quote
There's never time to do things right, but there's always time to do it over.

Nane_Nena

  • Cheater Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Amazing!
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2005, 12:24:21 pm »
welll well well, I was on a quest, when I first joined here, that quest has most certainly ended, and quite positive I might say. You guys lived up to my expectations and all I ever thought was totally right.

I have not many words to say, not because I can't, but because I don't want. Why, it's a total timewaste, and yes, I know you like that.

Name it as you like, feel yourself cool and 'uber' the 'owner', the one who owns them all. Well I got news for you 'mate, no matter what you do, no matter what you try, you will at least not succeed on my servers.

Each has his own professions, or better said his passion. So I got my own. No matter what you will try on my servers, I will make sure it will not last for long. And now you thinking, 'you threatening me'? I can just say: one big LOL. It's no threat, it's a promise.

Too bad there are a lot of 'looser' admins, like in your example, because come on, what a looser. And it's no less than pathetic that he gives up his server because of a powerless feeling.

If you want to open people's eyes and make them view your way, invite them to your servers, make some advertisements. On my servers you will only be hated and hunted.

And I love the way you think you can bypass all security, well pal, as hopefully you know, server management doesn't end at the console. And not even on the same server..

Damn, I love my 'you talk like this, i'll talk like this' stuff!

This topic most certainly came to an end. Like you say, both sides have their own view. We can discuss hours about this part, and I am sure you will never surrender to at least one truth, the truth that it is someone else's server, blood sweat, tears, money, hours of work and above all it's that guy that 'owns' the server (and that is the real meaning of the word and not your word of 'owning' crap), so you don't have jack shit to say about that server. Reallife or virtuallife, maybe in ten years, we'll see if you finally came to realise, there is no difference, except the game it's self, which is virtual. All that is behind that... well, i'm not going to explain that again..

So, well, as a descent man I am; thanks for your 'time', it has been fun, who knows we meet again.

ZOldDude

  • The Unknown Rank!
  • Administrator
  • MasstKer
  • *
  • Posts: 20874
  • Old School TKC
    • View Profile
    • Admin
Amazing!
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2005, 01:19:57 pm »
So did you want my help that I offered to you or did you only read the stuff by those argue'n with you?


Z

*While we crash and burn, small, low tech, agrarian societies such as the Hmong in the mountains of Laos will continue on without so much as blinking an eye.*

Solomon

  • Cheater Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Amazing!
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2005, 01:32:26 pm »
Quote from: TheHeckler!

You are comparing private real life property to a public online gaming server...poor comparison.

It's not so poor comparison as you think. Read again carefully my post and use your brain during the reading.
http://www.tkc-community.net/Forums/viewtopic.php?p=28500#28500

You still talk about virtual world. Yes, there is a virtual world, the soldiers we are controling are virtual, their blood is virtual, the trees are virtual, the buildings are virtual. But I'm real, my computer is real, server the game is running on is real (it is a real piece of HW), the fun I'm having is real (and the pain my soldier is having is virtual).
Your argument is that the server is public, that means everybody can see it on the server list, everybody can try to connect to it etc. Back to my comparison with basketball - the gym is public in this way too, everybody can see the building, everybody can try to open the door and come in. And the same way as with the server - somebody can try to hack to it (prise open the door). In the gym case it is prosecutable and not moral, I hope you agree with this. In the server case it is not prosecutable, but from your view it is not immoral?  Do you see it? Is it really co non-comparable for you?
Why so many people think that if it is possible to do something, they can do it. It's similar to SW piracy. Such gyus thinks, that if it is possible to copy/burn/download the SW, they can do it and they have no problems with it. But why aren't they copying and downloading for example cars too? Because car cannot be downloaded from internet. So they have to buy it. And they see it natural, cars have to be bought. But SW can be copied, so SW doesn't have to be bought. Is this right approach? Both, cars and SW cost money and work to make, both are sold for money to make some profit for the creator. The only problem SW have is that it can be copied.
I don't hope that anybody from TKC here understand what I wanted to say. You have very big problems with seeing coherences between more or less different things. And it is funny to hear "open your eyes" from somebody who has a bag on his head. So keep living in your virtual world, I will live in my real world. Maybe we will meet on some open public server with no rules, it will be no problem for me, I can leave the server and choose another. Maybe I'll play with you the who gets most teamkills game, if everybody on the server will play it. It that case teamkill is not bad, I agree. Why? Because then you have new rules and you are not bothering anybody. But when we meet on a special server, with rules, or even locked, which I cannot leave because there is no other, you will start a war.

Solomon.

Nane_Nena

  • Cheater Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Amazing!
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2005, 01:48:49 pm »
Quote from: ZOldDude
So did you want my help that I offered to you or did you only read the stuff by those argue'n with you?


Z


What can I say, you start 'sounding' like a nice guy now. But I guess, no, I have my own ways, and if there is something that there can be done somewhere, then I'll think that out myself.

I still do see you guys as a community as a whole, maybe not all as good or evil or how you want to put it but I am not going to fight a community, that supports it's members and ideology, on the one hand and on the other hand getting help from that same community. It's I guess.. a moral kind of thing.
And besides, I can't think about a thing that you could help me with, but maybe you can clarify that by yourself?

Nane_Nena

  • Cheater Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Amazing!
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2005, 02:27:10 pm »
Since you guys have some trouble with your forums somehow, with search, debug, and some other stuff... I can't edit my post, so, a new one:

Was it about this part maybe?
Quote from: ZOldDude
PS: I think that I saw you invite people in the OFP section to come and TRY to deleat you from your own servers. I myself would not want to invite such troubles by giving permission to attempt this.

PPS: Would you please let me know on what DATE this started happing? I may be able to offer some insight.


Cause really, we will never be defeated, neither will we ever win. We don't play to be defeated or to win, at least not against eachother or against others in general. We don't want to be the best, neither the worst. We are who we are, we have fun, try to be friends, and try our best to improve ourselves, not for others, but for ourselves and fun. OFP, VC, whatever game, we will never play it in any other mode than coop (maybe some other modes for fun against eachother, no-ever to win), and then the fact remains, never for who is better or 'ownage' etc.

My sayings in the OFP forums are purely about: be my guest, if you think you can come and fuck up our games, and I can't do anything about it..well, be my guest :) Altough I don't want to provoce anything, I am not really afraid either.

LastResort

  • Klass Klown
  • ***
  • Posts: 293
    • View Profile
Amazing!
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2005, 03:07:33 pm »
Soooo, what are your servers called??

Quote
Each has his own professions, or better said his passion. So I got my own. No matter what you will try on my servers, I will make sure it will not last for long. And now you thinking, 'you threatening me'? I can just say: one big LOL. It's no threat, it's a promise.


I wish to hold you to that....

Plus, what did you hope to achive by comming here?! Did you hope to "make us see the light" or something?? I mean why stop something which makes us feel happy?!

Quote
I guess in reallife someone whould have already smashed your faces in...


And i've heard that all before.. now im not going off on any macho bullshit here. But why? Because i've heard people say..

"Mullah Omar, hes the one who started it. I wish i could meet him down a alley!"

Why so you can pull his/our pants down and fuck us up the ass!? Get real man.. if we see each other in the street were not gonna know whos who. We would/have probably walked past each other. And yes, i've had my face smashed in, i've had the shit beaten out of me.. but also beat the shit out of the other guys too.

So try not to makes threats to me about the virtual world and the real world. Oh, sorry sorry...
Quote
promises.


I just had to have my last say... im done with this one.

[edit by TheHeckler!] LR, try not to hit the reply button multiple times, you tripled posted this.  :wink:
I want revenge.

M. O.

  • Administrator
  • MasstKer
  • *
  • Posts: 9184
    • View Profile
    • http://www.tkc-community.net
Amazing!
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2005, 03:22:51 pm »
Quote from: TheHeckler!
Here's the bottom line on the "who makes the rules debate", it depends on who's got the power. Normally the admin has this power, so naturally he makes the rules...doesn't mean for 1 second we're going to follow them, but he can make them.

However, if I have a cheat/hack/trick that can bypass his ability to kick me off his server, then I make the rules. During my RtCW days, I often managed to turn a normal playing server of 32 or even 64 into a teamkill feast on both sides. I did this one night on a popular server when the admin logged on and saw what was going on. He discovered I was behind it and kicked me...but I of course just returned a minute later.

I was very good at tricking players/admins into kicking the wrong person with name smurfing. When I returned, I called a kick vote against the admin and successfully got him kicked from his own server (very funny and satisfying btw). Some players thought he was actually me and kicked him by accident, some just hit "F1" to get the annoying kick vote off their screen asap, and others were hecklers like myself who wanted to heckle the server. We managed to do this 3 times before he stopped trying to kick the hecklers and instead begged us to stop. I told him if he stopped trying to kick us, We'd let him stay...he reluctantly agreed.

Since he was just about powerless to stop all the hecklers from causing havoc, his rules became null and void. He shortly thereafter left the server in disgust, then we took control. We had teamkill contests to see who could get the lowest score...hide the documents somewhere on the map and make others hunt you down...teach others how to fly using the Lt.'s air strike trick, and other random acts of craziness. The result? Well there were a few players like yourself Nane who insisted we "play right", but they quickly left after they noticed how futile their efforts were. The majority of players stayed and had a blast...many thanked me for the fun they had when they were about to quit playing the game.

In short, our little venture prolonged the gaming experience for dozens of players that night alone (and there were others, many others). And that sort of game rejuvenation for gamers justifies our gameplay style, or at least certain aspects of it.

As far as the less altruistic motivations for why I do what I do?well simply put, I?m a selfish bastard.


ROFL  :icon_laugh
Heckling is an art, and game hacking a science.

Nane_Nena

  • Cheater Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Amazing!
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2005, 03:35:37 pm »
Quote from: LastResort
...

I did come here to start a discussion and dialogue with 'you guys' to try and find out what your motivation is all for this, what kind of guys you really are, and why you really do it. The FAQ is just full of: We do what we like and thats it. So thats why I came here.

You are not very insightfull also you are blind, I never made a threat to no one here. About the smashing faces part, and that is where I base my "you are not very insightfull and blind" thing on, is that I made that as an example, in the way that you guys see the virtual world and real world as 2 different things, and the reason why, is IMHO that you guys know that you whould get your faces smashed in if you acted like this in the real world. And I guess that's why you do it in the virtual world, because there are no direct consequences, that is all.

And well, if you are talking about threats...well I am being threatend here that a few of you guys will come to our servers and show us that I am not boss there, by using hacks/cheats to circumvate bans, kicking the admin off instead the other way around and so on..., my promise is than to you that you will not succeed or at least not for long. That is not a threat, but a promise, but now I start repeating myself too much.

I hope many people read this thread, as it tells people a lot about the guys that wonder around on these forums. One is not always insightfull as others but at least a few guys around here hit the sweetspot.

As said before, I already know what I wanted to know. So thanks for your time.

Pure_666

  • Relentless Teamkiller
  • **
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
Amazing!
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2005, 04:17:52 pm »
Damn school... cant post very long:p

Anyway, at LastResort(nice name btw, love the song:P)
I don't think all cheaters are lifeless dweebs, i don't think everyone that tries to do "the things you do at TKC" is a loser. Me myself like programming and hope to be skillfull at it one day. But i just don't understand how your view can be so clouded. I understand you wanna have fun... but why is it that you wan't to ruin it for someone else... Because that is what your saying here... got to go again:p
Btw, Mullah... i agree with you mostly... but then again, as stated earlier it depends on your view of things... and even though i don't always succeed... i try to view things of different angles... and i wish "people like LastResort(no i'm not stereo-typing)" could do that too more often...

TheHeckler!

  • Guest
Amazing!
« Reply #56 on: June 23, 2005, 09:49:03 pm »
Quote from: Solomon
Quote from: TheHeckler!

You are comparing private real life property to a public online gaming server...poor comparison.

It's not so poor comparison as you think. Read again carefully my post and use your brain during the reading.
http://www.tkc-community.net/Forums/viewtopic.php?p=28500#28500


You still talk about virtual world. Yes, there is a virtual world, the soldiers we are controling are virtual, their blood is virtual, the trees are virtual, the buildings are virtual. But I'm real, my computer is real, server the game is running on is real (it is a real piece of HW), the fun I'm having is real (and the pain my soldier is having is virtual). Your argument is that the server is public, that means everybody can see it on the server list, everybody can try to connect to it etc. Back to my comparison with basketball - the gym is public in this way too, everybody can see the building, everybody can try to open the door and come in. And the same way as with the server - somebody can try to hack to it (prise open the door). In the gym case it is prosecutable and not moral, I hope you agree with this. In the server case it is not prosecutable, but from your view it is not immoral?  Do you see it? Is it really co non-comparable for you?


We are talking about two different things...I'm referring to public servers only, which are more akin to a public park (as someone already compared) while private servers (what you're talking about) more closely resemble your "backyard" or "gym". And while "using my brain" I have determined on that basis, it is still a poor comparison...if you would do the same you would probably notice this as well.

Quote
Why so many people think that if it is possible to do something, they can do it. It's similar to SW piracy. Such gyus thinks, that if it is possible to copy/burn/download the SW, they can do it and they have no problems with it. But why aren't they copying and downloading for example cars too? Because car cannot be downloaded from internet. So they have to buy it. And they see it natural, cars have to be bought. But SW can be copied, so SW doesn't have to be bought. Is this right approach? Both, cars and SW cost money and work to make, both are sold for money to make some profit for the creator. The only problem SW have is that it can be copied.


Cars have physical moving parts that require raw materials, labor to contruct, and costs in logistics to bring to the consumer. When someone steals a car, there is a direct loss to the company. In terms of SW this isn't always the case...there are many programs that I've pirated that I would have never bought in a store if I couldn't burn them for free, I would have simply done without. Since I would have never bought the software, music, etc. and didn't actually steal any materials, the company suffered no such loss. Yes, piracy on a larger scale costs copyright holders money, beacuse there are many people who pirate SW who would otherwise pay for it, which is another matter altogether.


Quote
I don't hope that anybody from TKC here understand what I wanted to say. You have very big problems with seeing coherences between more or less different things. And it is funny to hear "open your eyes" from somebody who has a bag on his head. So keep living in your virtual world, I will live in my real world.


Once again, your ability to proudly proclaim your point of view (no matter how skewed) does not make it the correct one. We have our own views on such matters, and none of them require your approval, or the approval of anyone else for that matter.


Quote
Maybe we will meet on some open public server with no rules, it will be no problem for me, I can leave the server and choose another. Maybe I'll play with you the who gets most teamkills game, if everybody on the server will play it


You'd be surprised how much fun it can be.


Quote
But when we meet on a special server, with rules, or even locked, which I cannot leave because there is no other, you will start a war.


I've started many such wars, I revel in them.  :wink:

LastResort

  • Klass Klown
  • ***
  • Posts: 293
    • View Profile
Amazing!
« Reply #57 on: June 23, 2005, 09:50:31 pm »
I like 666  :D

Quote
i try to view things of different angles... and i wish "people like LastResort(no i'm not stereo-typing)" could do that too more often...


Ok heres my history:
Bought VC
Played VC like all the others
That was untill i joined this site. I knew that this site was around, but i never thought of joining. I once hated TKC.. i also to wanted to meet Mullar in the street...

BUT then i joined.. and found out that Mullar was a PERSON.. i once viewed these people as JUST cheaters not PEOPLE! But these people are nice guys. So 666, i don't have any fog over my eyes. I once viewed from all the other angles other than TKC's angle... now im on the angle that TKC see's from. And it's great! I think you would fit in nicly here... why not join for a bit, play like we do.. heckle like we do... it's fun!

 :D
I want revenge.

TheHeckler!

  • Guest
Amazing!
« Reply #58 on: June 23, 2005, 09:52:36 pm »
To add to LR's comment, let me point out that nearly everyone here at TKC was once a "normal" gamer at one time (myself included). So, believe it or not, we can "see the other side" much better than most gamers think...it's just that we choose this one.

[TKC]thejoker

  • Master Heckler
  • *****
  • Posts: 2429
    • View Profile
Amazing!
« Reply #59 on: June 23, 2005, 11:12:57 pm »
I dont understand why people complain about cheaters/tkers whatever ruining other peoples fun. DO WE GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT OTHER PEOPLES FUN?Nope, and why should we.

 Think about it, why should you care about other people you will never MEET or SPEAK TO or whatever? People donate to charity because of others they will never meet, because it is a real life situation, however peoples fun in a game ISNT.