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Nane_Nena

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« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2005, 06:57:57 pm »
Quote from: ThisIsFun
Quote from: Nane_Nena
And you are right, I shouldn't talk about EVERYONE in this community, because you have good guys and bad guys, but being called the TKC-Community and reading about teamkilling, cheats, bancircumvating etc, doesn't really give me a nice view on this..


Like er .. HoaX said
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And you think the TKC dev's are cheating in public and teamkilling?
If you would have read earlyer topics about this than you would have known many of us are against the teamkilling.


Sure, it may be named the TKC-community, but it's not just the name that brings people to a community, sometimes it's just being around people that you like and may not fully agree with, but enjoy their company/style/common viewpoints and so on.. Not everyone in the racing community may agree on which brand's best, but they all love racing(?)

Anyway, I'm tired having had little sleep over the past week, so after I finish up my assessment I shall be sleeping. Nice debating.


You're righteous. True.
My excuse for threating everyone the same.

One of my standpoints remain, at least for our community TKC-Community is all BUT helpfull. More annoying than anything else.

I also have numereous reports of everywhere of servers about cheaters, teamkillers and such, and thus I totally DISAGREE the whole cheating/teamkilling/rejoining after banned stuff, and thus with the developers of these things.

Also, I dont know if you meant it personnally about that a cheater was screwing up 'our' kills and we cry about that.. if so, that is TOTALLY not the point, as explained earlier we don't play like that, we don't play like that at all..

Still waiting for some replies from people, why they think they may go into servers where they are not welcome and that they may do whatever they want to do. Gimme some valid points there.

GameBro

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« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2005, 07:21:04 pm »
your CNN Reporter or something?

How can you tell, that no1 is wanted on your server?, when he joins with different ID? so you kick alot People of then, later you wonder if some1 is messing around with you?
So LOCK your Server and play with your own. Tell me just if I join your Server, no hax as normal and play fair. I kill some1 just by mistake ,and I say sorry m8..not my day. Boom you kick me off, and I waited 40 minutes to start that Game. So you say I?m not welcome then? comeon get a littlebit on the Ground Super-Admin with no Clan but a Server.
You allways get back revange later you can cry about not haveing a normal Game, no1 cares about you. I?m a normal Player, and I never played games with Cheats, but I use the ID-Changer for those kind of Super-Admins, if you dont respect others you dont get respect too.
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M. O.

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« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2005, 07:26:43 pm »
Quote from: Nane_Nena


Lol, as a site admin/owner I whould have expected a somewhat more insightfull answer.

All is just to make an example, ofcoarse its not 100% comparable, but still you have to honour the guy or group that hosts the server, just like in real life. Every site, every server, and so on, you have to obey the owners/makers/admins. Simple as that, it's their SERVER, their MONEY and their TIME and WORK. First off you need to have respect for such a thing, even if you don't have that (left alone the fact that there is something wrong with you if so), you should respect the rules of the server. That is the whole point, and no matter what you say to make it look/sound good, still it isn't correct to say: We can do whatever we like on any server we like. That is just total bullshit...
To take an example of your 'there is no internet police/cheat police' and so on... here we go again: So if there is no police in the reallife, or no police 'around' or no law for it, you may murder, steal, abuse etc. anybody and anything? Get real.

Real life and 'virtual life' is connected to eachother, you may find that untrue, but then again, you are not very insightfull. Why? There are still people behind the other end of the pc's, it are still people whom you play with/against, and it are still people that bought a server, rented server-room, paying the bills and last but not least making things possible by working hard for it.

You can not deny that, and thus real life and virtual world are still connected with eachother. Maybe you are not in the same room, the same house, the same street, town or country, it doesn't matter, you are still humans together in one way or the other.



I?m just lowering myself to your level ;) I don?t agree with that you should honour the server admin, if that?s the case he should also honour the people who play on his server, because without them the server/admin is nothing. The admin is usually someone who creates a server, that?s fine for me, I sometimes also do. It?s nothing special apart from setting a few basic settings like game length maps et cetera. But is an admin really supposed to tell how everyone is supposed to play? No, I don?t think so. There are a few basic rules in a game. How you score, how you shoot etc. Then there are many other elements in the game that you can interpret yourself. Like your own gaming style, what gun you prefer, if you prefer to sneak or not, play aggressive or defensive, your stance on TKing, Cheating and so on. There?s no built in rule that limits these freedoms, therefore I can interpret the rules as I want, just like you do as an admin. A very long time ago I was just like you, I cared about internet morale etc, but who gives a damn. Sometimes the best way to win or have fun is to avoid conventional unwritten rules to test new strategies in RTS or FPS games, build a few nukes more than what?s ?allowed? or something like that. Treaties are not supposed to be broken but they can. To make a real life connection (as you always like to do), there are no rules in wars nor in war games either. It?s not foolish, selfish or childish to play a little bit different than what other people do. It adds variation, and variation means fun. Of course I don?t cheat the first few weeks when playing a new game because I still think they are varied. In good games like OFP it took me a few years before I slowly began to cheat. Right before I started to cheat I almost didn?t play at all, but now through cheating OFP is fun again, because I vary the unwritten rules/agreements, which in fact don?t exist. They?re all interpretations.

If you think OFP/VC/Whatever is boring and whine over cheats, and it?s a central part of your life, I think that we do you a favour helping  you discover the world outside games (which you usually relate to with absurd examples, maybe you need a little bit more experience of it? Who knows? I don?t).

In many ways TKing and cheating makes the game even more difficult. It adds a greater challenge. For instance, think about a TKer who has both teams against him, isn?t that twice as hard? If he is a skilled player and is bored because of the easiness (no variation) of the game he wants a bigger challenge and starts to TK everyone. This is how I started TKing in VC Demo, I was in top 50 of ATG.

I don?t think we can get much longer with this discussion. We value things differently. You value virtual life as high as real life. Admins above players. Players above other players. I think everyone is equal, everyone has his own right to play as he wants. The admin can kick him because he has the power to do so, but the cheater might also have the ability to get back if he wants because everyone has got the same right to play a game he has bought. You got to accept that.

And don?t mix in IQ with this, it has nothing to do with it. Although I must admit that breaking normal ways of life or playing and finding new ways that work is a bit more difficult than just obeying orders without knowing why or referring to ?that it has to be like that? or ?it?s so just?.

Cheating in games is such a small problem, have you ever thought about real real life problems like famine, poverty and oppression before? Cheating is nothing compared to it, and therefore I just laugh at your comments where you make it look like you and your fellow admins are the ones who are oppressed and abused. We don?t care about small problems in a non existent world. We don?t think about them at all. Why make games more complicated than they really are, we only play for fun.
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Solomon

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« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2005, 07:36:48 pm »
Quote from: Mullah Omar
I don?t agree with that you should honour the server admin, if that?s the case he should also honour the people who play on his server, because without them the server/admin is nothing. The admin is usually someone who creates a server, that?s fine for me, I sometimes also do. It?s nothing special apart from setting a few basic settings like game length maps et cetera. But is an admin really supposed to tell how everyone is supposed to play? No, I don?t think so.

There is a big difference if you just start your game and set up a server and if somebody has a special dedicated server (now I mean real physical server, computer) only for running more VC gameservers. He has to pay for it, he has to take care of it, maintain it etc. It is not just about setting some settings.

M. O.

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« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2005, 07:38:51 pm »
Yes there's a big difference between dedicated servers and just setting up a match once. But there's no difference between the settings for the game server (program supplied with the game), it's still the same things the admin has got to do, same settings etc. And that was what I wanted to point out. The admin can set a few basic rules apart from the rules of the gamemode, but the rest are unwritten and are interpreted by the players.
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Nane_Nena

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« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2005, 07:40:36 pm »
As stated before we play teamplay COOP, not against eachother, that gets boring after 2 months. We play as a team, with teamleader and make things as real as possible, that is a totally different gameplay than on 99% of the other servers. Simple as that. Our community with 400+ members is built ON those rules, we play by those rules and like it or not, everyone who plays on our servers, which costed 2000 euro, 100 euro a month of data traffic and a lot of other pieces of software and such, WE make the rules and YOU abide them, and so there are many more servers and communities that payed lots of money for their servers, hosting, data-traffic, software and so on. Also a lot of work is put up to produce a different gamestyle and to maintain that, and believe it or not in the contrary to you guys playstyle, we absolutely DONT need cheats to make our games interesting, in our line of gameplay it even fucks it up completely, you play for the individual, we play for the team. As it should be meant to be played, but thats discussable.

The point and fact remains, a community worked for a working model of rules and gameplay, server admins pay for their server, hosting and data-traffic, the player needs to follow those rules, which are not about what weapon you use or whatsoever, but what mainly about that you should work as a team and not as an individual. Don't follow them, we have the right to put you off the server simple as that. That you want to get back at the admin who kicked/banned you..that is simply totally immature, YOU dont follow the rules of it, so its not US who are wrong, YOU are wrong.  (puberty, anyone?)

As said before we have a large community and a lot of guys that all share the same thoughts etc. We don't have to make servers for you guys, you guys should be happy that you MAY play at the servers, and otherwise you can start your own or play elsewhere.

And ofcoarse this is all put up to the extreme, but it's simply the way it works, but it's not as if we are hostile to our members, players and so on or that we kick/ban because of an accident, or because of 1 mistake or whatsoever, there is a high tolerance, but TK'ing on purpose means simply a ban, how hard can that be?

and I was speaking mainly about VC, cause our OFP servers are closed, member-only, so we dont have to deal with these 'problems'.

I stand and still stand with the fact, we pay, we make, you play. That makes US the 'boss' of our servers and not the other way around. If you still think that it's not right, then really, you got a serious problem with how stuff works in the world, as well as in the virtual world.

Admins are around to protect the way of gameplay, the gameplay that the whole community likes to play this way. Without that protection, games get bored, games are out of interest, and you start needing guys like you: cheaters.


ps about "the rest is unwritten..."well, no, rules are on a website, like it should be, for everyone to read. And stated in the join message. How hard is that?

You guys are seriously off-world here. We pay, we work, you play, we are the boss.

I host a party at home, you come, you respect my rules.
I have a restaurant, these are my rules, you come eat, you respect my rules.

Reallife and the virtual world are connected, whatever you may think.

M. O.

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« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2005, 08:05:33 pm »
Yes you host the server but that doesn't make you "the boss" as I stated before. We're playing as we do as long as there's noone enforcing your "law". We have no reason to follow imaginary rules. If you can't accept that you can close your servers, moan here or whatever, do as you want. There are no rules to follow either, we don't approve your rules.

I fully understand and respect your points and values, but you should also understand that there are other ways games can be played and there's no way to change that.  :)

Quote
I host a party at home, you come, you respect my rules.
I have a restaurant, these are my rules, you come eat, you respect my rules.


Obviously this is a bad comparison as people actually don't follow your server rules, while noone would dispute the rules of a restaurant. It's not the same thing and even if it would be a good comparison it wouldn't be telling anyone how to act somewhere else.
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hoax-ravenheckler

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« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2005, 08:33:51 pm »
Quote from: Nane_Nena
Quote from: HoaX
Everyone got there own definition of "fucking up the game".

I think that the clan cheating is the worse.
Your opinion is that making cheats is the worst thing that could happen.

And you think the TKC dev's are cheating in public and teamkilling?
If you would have read earlyer topics about this than you would have known many of us are against the teamkilling.


Being against teamkilling, and still calling your community and toppics TeamKill and Cheating Community or whatever it stands for? Come on, open your eyes. Like posted before at one hand you say no, but on the other hand you support it?
What do you expect with such forums etc, that people will not do it? A little bit responsibility could be in place you know? Or everyone forgot what that means?



It isn't my community and it won't be mine.

So if I wouldn't like TKing, I shouldn't join this community?
As I can assure you, I haven't cheated in public longer than 10 minutes.
The most times it was just to test cheats.

And I make this cheats to learn somethings from it.
Not to get my so called ownage up.

As I can't be botherd nor what my k/d ratio is nether what you or any other things of me.
You like me, ok.
You Like me not, ok.

I can't really care.
And I don't think anyone in here really cares about what they think about us and how they think about us.
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There's never time to do things right, but there's always time to do it over.

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« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2005, 08:48:51 pm »
Yeah your kinda fighting a losing battle here dude. I mean comming onto our forums, having a go at us, you didn't pay for these forums.. your not a member, you have no right to do what you are doing!!

Wait i see a pattern.... :lol:

But any way, i was once like you.. i once dispised the TKC community. But now im with them i love it!!!
I want revenge.

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« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2005, 09:24:13 pm »
thats a typical sort of People who mix private Live with Game, look I do have Friends a Wife ,and 2 Kids. I play for fun and I dont need cheats to play. I respect every1 who shows me respect, but if you think when you have to play Big-Boss on your Server and thread People like shit and kick who you like, so what you do in your Private Life then?
You know People like you are the real little bitches, who go here and there just to make them look how great they are, what real admins they are. Thats why I like this Community, here I got the Medicin for you.
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Solomon

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« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2005, 09:34:51 pm »
To the real word - virtual word comparison:

Is it really so hard to see some similar things there?
I have a different example here, yellow is virtual world, cyan is real word.

You build your own gym, you pay the building, you pay property tax for it, you pay cleaners etc.
You buy your own computer server, you pay monthy fees for i-net connection, you have to maintain it etc.

You allow your friends to come to your gym to play basketball there. They all have key to the gym door. The door are locked.
You allow community members to connect to your server, they all know the password. The server is passworded (locked).

Your friends are having fun in your gym, they are playing basketball with their own rules, let's say something like you can score only for 3 points otherwise it is not counted. May look strange to others, but they are having fun with this game-style.
Community members are having fun on your server, they play by their own rules, lets say for example CTF with only one team allowed to score in 30 minutes, then only the second team (I don't know it is not important). May look strange to others, but they are having fun with this game-style.

Now somebody breaks the door and starts to play with them with his own rules, playing against both teams, breaking their rules, ruining their game.
Now somebody bypass the server password and starts to play with them with his own rules, teamkilling, cheating, breaking their rules.

Now your money is used for this non-welcome player, you don't know him, you don't want him there, he is annoying to you.
Now your money is used for this non-welcome player, you don't know him, you don't want him there, he is annoying to you.

Can you tell me what are the differences? I mean this not as a rhetorical question, I would really like to know your answer to it.
You really don't see how similar is it?
And don't say me the difference is that once you play Vietcong and second time basketball. I purposely used basketball, because it is sport+fun, the same as computer games (yes, computer games are sport, as well as for example chess is sport).

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« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2005, 09:38:59 pm »
I will be happy to join the debate with you Nane_nena, unfortuntely I do not have the time at the moment. If time permits, I will join the fray this evening.  :wink:

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« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2005, 01:25:13 am »
Hi guys, I am one of players who visits Nane-Nena servers regularly, I have read all the previous posts in this topic abd I only want to add this:
I agree with you that after few months the game as most players play it becomes boring. Then you can leave it or find another approach. Ok, your approach is to try cheats and/or TK or whatever. Our way is to play as one team and approach real combat style. I dont say which way is better, both our groups/communities want to have some fun in their way. But there is one important difference: You can play on any server, on every server you can cheat and/or teamkill and have fun. Our community cant have fun on any server, because we have to have a certain place to meet and teamplay. Everybody from our community comes back to these servers regularly to teamplay with the players who want to teamplay. And Nane_Nena and other admins are there to keep our gamestyle for us. They are not acting like "Big Bosses", they are there to help us. You guys here say the admin is not a boss but he should respect the players who want to play. They respect, they even help us who want to TEAMplay on their servers. Yes, they dont respect the guys like some of you who ruin our games and want to have their kind of fun. But what about you guys? Do you respect us? And I dont mean the admins now (I am not any admin myself), but the players. Over 400 players who come to these servers regularly and expect some kind of game-style every time when we join. I spent 250+ hours playing at these servers because I want to TEAMplay. Now you say you have right to join our servers and cheat and TK and ruin our games. Yes, there is no police. But is really your point of game-style to ruin the other peoples games? I hope you understand if we want to play our game-style and keep it, we sometimes need to kick people who dont understand us or simply dont want to. When there is a newbie to our servers, we explain him the rules and he can srick to them or leave. Most players respect this. Not your community or at least some of you. Pls let me know if you understand and respect this.

EDIT: One more thing about that "respect" thing. Admin cannot respect all the players who join his server if he wants to keep some kind of game-style. If you respect all, there is no gamestyle but mess. Yes, you can play like this, but we all know its boring. You guys when you cheat or teamkill dont respect the other players too, so whats the difference between you "respectfull" cheaters and our "boss" admin? /EDIT END

ZOldDude

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« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2005, 02:38:32 am »
I play on TMG and 6th as basicly that is the only game style I enjoy.
I have no problem following the rules on those servers.

I have been kicked out unfairly on both in the past year and just used programs to  re-enter along with a name change....long befor the info was made public here.

However if I were you befor I came here and started saying that TKC is hacking your passwords I would first look at those "400" people who have the passwords.

I have no doubt whatsoever that it is one or more of these of these "beloved" and tusted persons pulling this prank.

It sure as hell is not me that much you can bank on.
This is not to say that programming is not to be found.....but I do not intend to share it with people.
Not at this point in time at least.

If I could sit on all the info I had for the past 18 months then I can afford to follow my OWN personal rules as far as having permission from those who programed things befor making them public.

However if you have bothered to read the main site page you would see that TKC as a group has decided to make all the VC/FA stuff public out of  the boredom that the small handfull of players still in the game have.
This game died long ago but nobody has covered the open grave....thus about each month untill Vietcong 2 goes retail small bits will be made public to generate some sort of intrest.

The finnal act is to post how HradBa works and how to defeat any part of it or just bypass it altogether AFTER Vietcong 2 is retail.

ID#'s/Account keys/Old-New anticheat programs.....all a waste of time,effort and distubution.

Vietcong 2 has things planed,programed and waiting with very few re-codes expected depending on what goes to the pressor befor retail.
Just wanted to let you know you have more excitement to look forward to.

Z

PS: I think that I saw you invite people in the OFP section to come and TRY to deleat you from your own servers. I myself would not want to invite such troubles by giving permission to attempt this.

PPS: Would you please let me know on what DATE this started happing? I may be able to offer some insight.

*While we crash and burn, small, low tech, agrarian societies such as the Hmong in the mountains of Laos will continue on without so much as blinking an eye.*

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« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2005, 03:49:12 am »
Quote from: ZOldDude

This game died long ago but nobody has covered the open grave....thus about each month untill Vietcong 2 goes retail small bits will be made public to generate some sort of intrest.

You are wrong. Vietcong is not dead. Why are so many people playing it (without your new fresh blood - cheats and TK)? Why are so many new clans starting (I have a good view on this cos I'm co-admin of one big Vietcong web)? Why is the game still seling very well?
Some players have found a different way than you how to make the game "fresh" again. New user maps, just playing them or even trying to make some, this can tight you to the game again very badly, belive me. New gamestyle, for example real coop, something like Nane_Nena is talking about. Second "group" of people don't have to find something new, cos they are still having fun with the "normal" Vietcong. Another people just started to play Vietcong right now, so the whole game is fresh for them. "Old game" doesn't mean that no new players are coming to play it. For example not everybody has a great PC so not everybody is able to play the new games... Btw did you notice that a new addon was released? Yes, I know, Red Dawn is not good addon, but how can you say game is dead when OFFICIAL addons are still beeing created?
If the game dies for you, you cannot just say that it died for everybody!
Viecong is one of the games that is played on official pro-gamers tournament and leagues. Lets take Counter-Strike (1.6), very old game, nothing new is happening there, but still it is the most popular on-line FPS game. Why you don't say CS is dead? Or do you think it is dead?
I'm not saying this because I play Vietcong, I don't feel a need to stand up for it, I'm just trying to tell you that the game is not dead when you are starting to be bored with it. You are not the only one on the world, did you notice this?
But I understand you, for you the game was boring, so you've found something new. For me the game was boring too, so I've found something new too (different game-style). But there is a big difference between us -  I'm not bothering you. (Here "you" is not meant personally, but in general.)

Quote from: ZOldDude

The finnal act is to post how HradBa works and how to defeat any part of it or just bypass it altogether AFTER Vietcong 2 is retail.

ID#'s/Account keys/Old-New anticheat programs.....all a waste of time,effort and distubution.

Vietcong 2 has things planed,programed and waiting with very few re-codes expected depending on what goes to the pressor befor retail.
Just wanted to let you know you have more excitement to look forward to.

Hey, it is great (I'm not ironic), game developers need such feedback and testing. If you find how to cheat the game, how to bypass the psw etc., test it and report it to Pterodon, you will make a good job and you'll have my respect.
But testing is not similar to using for your own pleasure. Don't tell me you still need to test the old well-known easy way how to bypass the server psw. And if yes - so why don't you create your own closed server and don't try it there? You are a community, so you have more computers, you can test whatever you want/need.