Author Topic: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban  (Read 7371 times)

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OMG Pony

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Re: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2012, 03:26:55 pm »
I like you. And i like your idea, but the gameplay bored me (maybe include quests, no warzones or citys with ai secure to make trade an talk possible).  :icon_thumbsup

But i see a problem in the new way of BE. One of my keys are banned, but i have some more and can still play. Thats now the problem, but whats about these guys, they get now the msg: "invalid guid"? I know a german lper, he get global banned for nothing, maybe for using fraps to record (he ask for help in your dayz forum). Its fair? :icon_rolleyes2


I have to go.

:)

MrMedic

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Re: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2012, 04:09:05 pm »
exactly rocket so what right does sable have to take the game away from the unfortunate few that recieved a global ban , in my books thats a bit naughty.

I am half expecting him to give it the old speil of 'go play on none battleye servers' next.

He didn't take the game away. The game works just fine as the way he purchased it. His issue can, actually, only be with the server provider itself. Because they are the ones who chose to use Battleye, they are the ones who sent his data to battleye. If he hasn't paid for the service of using their server then there is shit all action that he can take against the server provider.

It is a voluntary, community managed and run "reputation" system. It's NOT like VAC which is an official system.

Lets use an example:

You buy a car from Bohemia Interactive
You drive said car on a private racetrack, and get kicked off that racetrack for breaking the rules
You can't sue Bohemia Interactive for what happened, your car still works fine.

There is zero difference between the old Battleye and the new one, except that all the servers are sharing a new type of ban called a Global Ban.

He can "lawyer up" his posts all he wants, but the facts are pretty obvious. In a way, its a clever way to run the system because the "reputation" system is independent of the company selling the product, negating the need to deal with the legal issues you have outlined. He can scream and yell at Bohemia all he wants but they have NO power to overturn a Battleye ban. He'd have better luck appealing directly to the community, as they are the ones who run and maintain Battleye.

Dont get me wrong , I'm all for battleye , long may it live , what I'm saying is sable dealt with it badly and it could cause trouble for bi if steam get too many complaints , wrong time wrong place so to speak as the new flagship game is coming from them soon IE Arma 3.

Btw way off topic but are you going to develop Dayz for A3 ?
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rocket

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Re: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2012, 04:36:07 pm »
Dont get me wrong , I'm all for battleye , long may it live , what I'm saying is sable dealt with it badly and it could cause trouble for bi if steam get too many complaints , wrong time wrong place so to speak as the new flagship game is coming from them soon IE Arma 3.

$able's role is really just to develop the tech. If anyone was at fault there, it was me. PR isn't really my strong point and I could have discussed it better with both BI and possibly users.

Btw way off topic but are you going to develop Dayz for A3 ?

I'm hoping to have it developed as a separate product, whatever that might be. This way it won't restrict the enjoyment of ArmA2/3 dedicated fans and can make its own changes with it's engine to suit it's unique requirements. Obviously due to it's success many companies want the chance but I think selecting the best way forward there is very important.

Regarding the ban's themselves:

My only mod-apping experience was on the Amiga, many many years ago. And I suspect what I did in those days is so different from what happens today that I wouldn't be classed as such (nor much use). These days it would be classed as downright piracy with a bit of cheating thrown in for good measure. But I do feel like I have some understanding of the motivations and spirit behind today's mod-apping. I maintain a healthy skepticism with everything, and keep an open mind. The same applies to the global bans. But I have to admit I've yet to see any evidence that GUID's can be spoofed successfully to both GameSpy and Battleye. The vast majority of people contacting us are admitting that they hacked, and asking to be unbanned anyway. I use fraps and overlays all the time (almost constantly) and I haven't received a Battleye ban. I can't change my stance on this without evidence to the contrary no matter how passionately someone claims it to be the different, at the end of the day Occam's razor needs to be applied: the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

I feel sorry for the kid's who got caught up in something they didn't really understand, and then possibly got in trouble with parents (or older brothers) who didn't really understand what they had done (only the results). Having said that, ArmA2 is a mature rated game so theoretically supporting them playing the game isn't right either. There is a tragic nature to the situation, the solution here is what I think we can all agree - is that the security needs to be improved at many levels. What doesn't need to happen is for me to get all judgmental and angry at the people mod-apping, people are always going to mod-app games. But those who do need to realize that they're in the grey-zone and, particularly non-internal reputation systems like Battleye, will come down very hard on it.

For a system like DayZ, there will be, soon, a layered approach to bans. You have server level bans, global level bans (battleye), and database level bans (dayz). The database level banning is currently a manual process based on reviewing the very large amount of data gathered. Automating this with tools will present a very obvious picture as locality is easily recorded as is things like inventory, who fired what, who moved where. So I see security for DayZ as being conducted at many levels - but it should not be driven by me at the design code (sqf/fsm) level. Hence why I don't have a problem helping out with the odd scripting question here on the forums.

Energizer

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Re: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2012, 04:38:11 pm »
exactly rocket so what right does sable have to take the game away from the unfortunate few that recieved a global ban , in my books thats a bit naughty.

I am half expecting him to give it the old speil of 'go play on none battleye servers' next.

He didn't take the game away. The game works just fine as the way he purchased it. His issue can, actually, only be with the server provider itself. Because they are the ones who chose to use Battleye, they are the ones who sent his data to battleye. If he hasn't paid for the service of using their server then there is shit all action that he can take against the server provider.

It is a voluntary, community managed and run "reputation" system. It's NOT like VAC which is an official system.

Lets use an example:

You buy a car from Bohemia Interactive
You drive said car on a private racetrack, and get kicked off that racetrack for breaking the rules
You can't sue Bohemia Interactive for what happened, your car still works fine.

There is zero difference between the old Battleye and the new one, except that all the servers are sharing a new type of ban called a Global Ban.

He can "lawyer up" his posts all he wants, but the facts are pretty obvious. In a way, its a clever way to run the system because the "reputation" system is independent of the company selling the product, negating the need to deal with the legal issues you have outlined. He can scream and yell at Bohemia all he wants but they have NO power to overturn a Battleye ban. He'd have better luck appealing directly to the community, as they are the ones who run and maintain Battleye.

Dont get me wrong , I'm all for battleye , long may it live , what I'm saying is sable dealt with it badly and it could cause trouble for bi if steam get too many complaints , wrong time wrong place so to speak as the new flagship game is coming from them soon IE Arma 3.

Btw way off topic but are you going to develop Dayz for A3 ?


Yep this is the primary problem..

 All this Global ban is strange come when you Rocket is reurn from E3 when have spoke with Bohemia for a fucture Develop of Dayz for Arma 3.
All this is cooperating for Remove more accont from aram 2

1) For give more money for have budget for new arrive arma 3 (more peaple rebuy arma 2 combined operation atfter this ban)
2) More peaple after ban have intention buy new arma 3.

Is all a fraud by battle eye and Bohemia.

Pride

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Re: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2012, 06:27:34 pm »
Clearly you didn't see their plan to release another DLC army this year. (Even though ArmA 3 is *supposed* to launch this year as well. I suppose they'll delay it to milk ArmA 2 one last time. That and DayZ is probably keeping Bohemia Interactive afloat right now with all those sales from steam.)

MrMedic

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Re: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2012, 06:36:59 pm »
well its simple ,  if your not happy with it , boycot their products and hurt them in the pocket.

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c5

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Re: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2012, 06:49:32 pm »
Clearly you didn't see their plan to release another DLC army this year. (Even though ArmA 3 is *supposed* to launch this year as well. I suppose they'll delay it to milk ArmA 2 one last time. That and DayZ is probably keeping Bohemia Interactive afloat right now with all those sales from steam.)

Exactly. Why do release another brand new game if you could still squeeze money out of the current one. Our society is pretty much built around the money in the end  :icon_mad2

If my precise speculation is wrong... or anyone disagrees  :icon_rolleyes2 it still smells after money
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 06:55:46 pm by c5 »
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OMG Pony

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Re: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2012, 06:52:37 pm »
The Point: A3 maybe this year = milk the cow (A2) * sell last DLC * from yesterday to today use global banns, after A2 get a good sale statistic. Sorry, but its 1 + 1.  :icon_rolleyes2
:)

Energizer

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Re: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2012, 07:08:43 pm »
well its simple ,  if your not happy with it , boycot their products and hurt them in the pocket.



Yep this is the correct position, but is necessary coolaborate all together. and open more info in more site for boycot this. and informa all for this.

bouncer123

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Re: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2012, 07:48:55 pm »
well its simple ,  if your not happy with it , boycot their products and hurt them in the pocket.



which you definitely wont do because you once again will need to show everyone how awsum you are in a3... right? :icon_laugh :icon_thumbsup

Coronel_Niel

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Re: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2012, 08:13:50 pm »
People get butt hurt about being banned from Arma 2. To be fair, if you hack and get banned for it and you can't get past the ban, don't hack. I learn't that by bricking 20-30 VAC games on my main account. You are learning this now ;)
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MrMedic

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Re: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2012, 08:29:04 pm »
well its simple ,  if your not happy with it , boycot their products and hurt them in the pocket.



which you definitely wont do because you once again will need to show everyone how awsum you are in a3... right? :icon_laugh :icon_thumbsup

need?
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MrMedic

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Re: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2012, 08:29:50 pm »
People get butt hurt about being banned from Arma 2. To be fair, if you mod-app and get banned for it and you can't get past the ban, don't mod-app. I learn't that by bricking 20-30 VAC games on my main account. You are learning this now ;)

20 - 30 ? which games ?
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Coronel_Niel

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Re: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2012, 08:35:28 pm »
People get butt hurt about being banned from Arma 2. To be fair, if you mod-app and get banned for it and you can't get past the ban, don't mod-app. I learn't that by bricking 20-30 VAC games on my main account. You are learning this now ;)

20 - 30 ? which games ?

Every vac game I own, which is a few and every vac game I don't own, which is even more. Had the ban for like 3 years now after 300 hours of CS:S play (At time of ban, all my stats seems to have been wiped since then)

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Temo

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Re: Solution for unwarranted Global Ban
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2012, 09:49:35 pm »
So here i am kneeing infront of rocket:

Im begging you: DONT GO TO EA. PLEASE

They will rip this idea off to the very basics and add some retarded COD to it, to sell it as a brand new fucking product which will die after half a year (look at bf3).

PLEASE ROCKET, DONT!