I just read through your FAQ, and wanted to get a discussion going about it. Some of the things I say are counter-points, other things I say will just be comments, and others have no point other than to show people the way of looking at it from another angle. The stars are my answers by the way, just to make it easier to seperate the 2 while reading.
Quote from your visitor greating page:"who once had forgotten that games were not just about competition, but about fun. Players working for an alternative gaming ideology. An ideology based on the foundations of freedom and fun - the purpose of gaming. "
****The purpose of single-player gaming is, freedom and fun. The purpose of a MULTI-PLAYER game, is to win through even competition. Through even competition comes the fun part you were talking about. You feel an accomplishment when you win, because you know things are even, and you and/or your team, managed to better organize and run more efficiently than the other person/team. Just like any sport. Multiplayer games are like sports. The only difference is that in an online multi-player game, you are able to play a sort of "sport" in a setting either not available in real life, or not currently possible in real life.
From Your FAQ Section:Question: Why do we teamkill/cheat/annoy?
Quote from your answer: For most, enjoyment is the primary aim in one form or another
From your TKC Creed secton:"this method of play can be quite enjoyable and worthwhile for a significant and ever increasing number of players."
****Increasing number of YOUR players, yes. What makes TKing and Cheating more enjoyable and worthwhile to you than beating someone who has an even chance, I'll probably never fully understand.
FROM YOUR GAMING PHILOSOPHY:"Games, above all else must be fun for the player. ?Player? referencing the individual who is playing the game, not the gaming community as a whole. When a game has lost its entertainment value, there ceases to be a purpose to play. Players have the right to due whatever is necessary to perpetuate or resurrect enjoyment in a game for as long as desired, and this right need not be sacrificed for the enjoyment of fellow players."
***I enjoy killing teamkillers and people who hack the game/cheat to give themselves an unfair advantage so they finally feel powerful, cool, skilled, evil, or whatever the case. So by your own philosophy, everything I did was perfectly fine. By your philosophy, I don't need to "respect your playstyle" like you were saying in my Call Of Juarez thread, as you don't respect mine. I sacrificed your enjoyment of hacking/cheating for my enjoyment of stopping you from cheating and knowing you were probably embarassed in spectator mode.
From your Cheating Philosophy Section:"As with real life, there are many different types of people present in online gaming, with many different tastes. Some are content with a game as it was intended for play by the developers, while others are not. We do not agree with the notion that if one is not satisfied with a game the way it was developed, that a player should look for another game to play. When a game does not meet one?s expectations, or has lost its former appeal, the use of game modification techniques is encouraged to create a better gameplay experience for the player. This same belief applies to unintended coding vulnerabilities as well."
*** And that's wonderful, if you don't like the way a game is, change it to whatever's fun for you.. In
single player. deep down in your heart you know it's messed up to cheat in Multiplayer against other people who are not using your cheats. You can train yourself to mentally block out those feelings while you're commiting the act, just like a mass murderer does everytime he kills a victim, and make it like a temporary guilt band-aid.. But at the end of the day, when all is said and done, you know it's cheap and your "accomplishments" feel probably empty to you I'm sure, or at the very least you must only feel only a very small fraction of what you could feel if you beat someone on an even playing-field.
And if you really were the "good guys" you try to make yourselves out to be, you wouldn't go into public servers and cheat/hack/TK people for your own entertainment. If what you do is soooo righteous, you'd hand out these cheats like candy and MAKE SURE that EVERYONE on the server was using them too, so everyone would be happy playing the new "enjoyable" game you've created through hacks/cheats/etc.
From your player vs. community section:"an individual player's right to enjoy a game is absolute in our eyes and does not need to be compromised for the enjoyment of others."
*** You said it. And since your "right" to enjoy the game includes pissing all over mine, I have no problem with making sure you can't play the game (the same way you do to me and others with cheats and TK's) too, i.e. pissing all over yours. In your philosophy, it's alright to ruin someone else's gameplay if it makes yours more enjoyable. Well, that's exactly what I do every time I TK one of you so you can't play. My gaming experience becomes more enjoyable when I know that you're not hacking/cheating/TKing at the moment, and that you feel embarassed sitting in spectator mode.
Quote From Same Section: "One, players do not know personally the people with whom they play with; they are complete strangers meeting online for entertainment."
***Nazi Soldiers didn't know alot of the Jews they drug into the street and shot either. But that doesn't make it right or mean it's ok to do simply because you don't know them.
Another Quote From Same Section: "The belief that one must ?show respect? to their fellow players is not shared in this community. Respect is something that must be earned through time, not automatically given to strangers in an online game."
***So, again, in your own philosophy, I don't need to show you any respect, because you don't show us any respect. Eye for an eye.
From your Motives For Heckling section:"By introducing additional elements into our games, new possibilities arise and previously unexplored gaming paths open to us. Although other members of the gaming community may choose not to partake in such activities, we at TKC find the forbidden fruit of heckling quite a refreshing and enjoyable change of pace from the repetitive and lackluster gaming rituals of the past."
***It might be "refreshing and enjoyable" for a person to become a pedophile. That's against the norm too, and might make that person's life more enjoyable for him.. So, by your theory, it's alright for someone to become a pedophile and sexually abuse a 6 year old as long as it improves his life, "and this right need not be sacrificed for the enjoyment of fellow [Community Members]". In the example I obviously changed your word "Players" to "Community Members" to fit the specific example.
Of course you enjoy heckling. You get to kill people without ever running the risk of having to die yourself, or be rivaled by anyone else with the same abilities. You get to cheat, to make yourself more powerful than the people around you not through skill, intimidation, respect, or anything like that.. But because you run a program on your computer. You can say whatever you want in words, and deny it all you want, and try to justify it any way you want.. But deep down, you know that what you're doing is simply lame, and actually ruins and hurts a game overall more than it would ever help it. The only time it would ever help it, is if every player started using the cheats. Is that your overall goal, to just play every game ever made while cheating, where everyone just cheats all the time so they can "broaden their horizons to the gaming experience"? I mean dead seriously, that's an honest question, not an anger question. Is that what you're trying to do, or?
Amusement Section:*** Ok.. Soo, you want to ruin a game just for attention. Like a little boy jumping up onto the dinner table and dancing infront of company yelling, "Hey! Look at me! Look at me! Hehe! Someone pay attention to me! I'm funny see! Please like me!... Please? Come on I'm doing something weird! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!! LIKE ME!!" .. You admit that in the "For Attention" section. And you don't feel stupid doing it? Your choice I guess. At least with getting attention, you're just.. Getting attention, not cheating.
Revenge Section:"Some gamers incorporate heckling as a means to ?get even? at others"
***But... You're not getting -EVEN- with other players when you do this. You're upset that you were beat on an even playing ground, so instead of taking your loss like a strong human being, you quit throw on a cheat and try to make yourself feel better by killing them, just to say "Ha! I finally did it!". If that's your way of feeling accomplishment and pride in yourself, then I really, really pity you. As the revenge section goes on you talk about heckling to get back at hecklers.. But that's simply not a possibility with godmode. No one ever dies. So what's your take on that situation? It's ok to cheat until it gets to a point where you even cheat (godmode) while cheating? Then you finally get what you want though, cheating.. So why not do it? It is just because then things would finally be even and that's uncomforting to you? or?
Get An Edge Section:"While we caution that most hecklers are just as skilled as the next player, there are bound to be a few who honestly need the extra edge a cheat provides. Just as Athletes take steroids for an added boost, there are players who think to themselves ?What?s the harm of using just one little cheat?? Perhaps they don?t have the time nor the inclination to put in the necessary hours of practice; or just simply aren?t coordinated with a mouse and keyboard. Wherever their deficiency may lie, they just cannot bring their abilities up to par compared to others. But it is a small minority that fits this description, as most players who are interested in a game to the point where they spend time looking for cheats, are also dedicated enough to be proficient."
*** Yes, athletes use steroids sometimes.. And what do we think of those athletes that cheat by using steroids? We look down on them because instead of striving to make themselves better athletes, they just take the "easy" way out and cheat. And that shows weak character and bad sportsmanship. If you suck at something, make yourself better, you don't go and cheat. If you're uncoordinated, and the game really means that much to you, then buy some equipment or do other activities offline that help you improve your coordination. If I like a specific kind of bread, but I don't have the money to buy it at the time.. You're saying it's ok for me to steal it instead of working for the money to buy it? Which means screwing over the person that put in hard work making the bread I just stole? It's the same principal when you cheat in in an online game. Not only are your kills prideless because you're cheating, but you're also screwing over people who have actually worked hard at the game to get as great as they are. That's like going to a boxing match you're about to fight in.. Looking at the other fighter and saying, "Wow! You trained alot harder than I did, you're in much better shape! Well, since I didn't do the work, I'll probably get my ass kicked.. So, I'll just ignore the fact that he trained, and put iron bars in my gloves so I don't have to worry about it. Then I wont have to ever actually have to lose."
ARGUMENTS AGAINST HECKLING SECTION:"You?re Destroying The Game"
Wrong. We are revitalizing the game, not atomizing it. Would changing the shape or texture of an object necessarily spoil it? We do not believe so. Let?s take a look at what it means to ?destroy? a game.
Destroy: To put an end to; ruin; or kill.
Putting an end to games is the exact opposite of our intentions. Instead we aim to revitalize games through introducing new and distinct game play mechanics. Some players may feel that heckling ?ruins? their enjoyment of the game. However, their individual perception of what creates satisfaction is not contingent to the entire gaming community. And just as sure as a video game is not a living being, it of course cannot be ?killed? either. Players who refuse to adapt to new styles of play may find it intolerable to continue playing under these conditions. This is their prerogative however, and does not subtract from the game as a whole."
*** Changing the shape or texture of an object when everyone else except for you thoroughly enjoys it the way it is, yes, does spoil it. Just because you enjoy eating rotten eggs personally, so you make and serve rotten eggs at your next party get-together, does not mean that you improved eggs just because "it's something different, and not the norm". It jsut means that you took a fresh egg that 99% of people find delicious, and made it rotten so that you would personally enjoy it.
There Is No Challenge In Cheating"This argument is based on the presumption that all types of challenges require strict adherence to the rules, and therefore does not cover the term ?challenge? in the boarder sense. Since our detractors can only focus on this sole aspect of challenge, we will ignore the many types of challenges that are excluded. When speaking of challenge in terms of standard measures (i.e., mission objectives), yes it is true that cheats normally reduce a game's challenge. The degree to which the challenge is reduced depends on the extent of modification the cheat performs."
***I get your point, but it's an extremely weak one considering that the CHALLENGE is accomplishing a goal and/or winning -WHILE FOLLOWING THE RULES DESIGNED TO MAKE THE GAME CHALLENGING- ... That's what a challenge is. If you "go outside the box" by making/saying your challenge is to see how long you can live while using a speed hack.. Then, well, you're not playing the same game that the other people are. You're playing Chutes And Ladders, and pretending that being good at Chutes And Ladders means you're a good Candy Land player. And then you believe that in your own head so much that it starts to become a reality to you. You say, "I win Candy Land! I'm awesome and this is fun!" ... When in reality, they're 2 completely unrelated things and it's kinda pathetic. So in effect, no, the game everyone else is playing, (the one you're hacking/cheating in), is not challenging to you anymore. There is no challenge there. So to put it in other words, no, there is no challenge in cheating. The only challenge, is seeing if you can write a program that works in a game. ((That's what I was referring to when I said Chutes And Ladders.. Candy Land would obviously be the actual game being played.))
You Are Ruining Other People's Fun"Or is it you who is allowing your fun to be ruined? How another player chooses to go about enjoying his or her copy of a game shouldn?t matter to someone who is a down to earth individual. In terms of cheats, if someone happens to be using an aimbot or wallhack so what? Continue playing the way you usually do, it isn?t as if your player?s character has been crippled in anyway so it should be immaterial to you. Many times players quit having fun in sight of hecklers because they cherish outdated gameplay to that of a holy grail. They don?t need to realize that there are other ways to derive pleasure from gaming than having the highest kill ratio.
Granted, there are exceptions, as heckling also evokes team killing, harassment, and general non-sense. As expected, such acts will cause some players to become irate. Admittedly we have a very egocentric view of online gaming, and this is where our ideologies with others clash. Our detractors insist that there is an unwritten and unified code of ethics to be followed amongst gamers; we do not share this belief. To us, the primary function of a game is enjoyment for the individual player, not to the gaming community as a whole."
*** No, it's you ruining other people's fun. Those people CAN'T enjoy their copy of the game when they are unable to PLAY it because someone else cheated to kill them. You CAN'T play the way you usually do, because the cheater uses non-game-mechanic methoods to ensure this. And yes, your player is crippled in a hypothetical sense since 100% completely unavoidable outside forces strike him at random times, and there is nothing he can do about it. That's like saying someone who has Aids needs to stop crying and just live their life, because if they were down to earth people, it shouldn't matter to them that viruses are destroying their white blood cells.
Anyway, at the end of this section you admit you're deuches (for lack of a better word), who ruin other people's fun for your own enjoyment.. Sooo, at the end, you basically agree with the original statement you were trying to defend yourself against. Well, at least you're consciously aware of it and that makes me happy.
Cheaters Have No SkillA common misconception, brought about from animosity and frustration of our detractors. There are few requirements to become proficient at video games. Eyesight, working hands & fingers, and practice?that?s it. Physical fitness is hardly a prerequisite, and it is unlikely that there is such a thing as natural talent when it comes to gaming. Basically anyone who plays a game long enough will become skilled over time, some take longer than others, but nearly everyone gets the hang of it after a while. Just because someone chooses a different approach to gaming does not mean that their skills are sub par. Although there are some cheaters who honestly aren?t very good at online games, most have no trouble performing well under the same standard methods of play as others. In general the skill of cheaters vs. standard players is comparable with little to no disparity.
***Well, you said it yourself. To be good at something, you have to practice. That's true anywhere in life. Why do you feel it's your "right" to cheat simply because you put less time into improving your skills as the other guy did? So, when you're playing the same game as everyone else, and you're not as good as them or you want an advantage, you cheat instead of practicing. That requires no skill, in the LITERAL sense even. You don't improve your skill, you just cheat. That means there is no personal skill at the game itself involved. The only skill involved is how well you can write programs/hacks/cheats. That's a totally different thing than the game being played. So in effect, no, cheaters don't have skill at the game.
Taking Advantage Of Exploits Is WrongSays who, the developers? But isn?t it their responsibility to ensure that bugs do not seep into the game?s final release? Since they are the ones being paid at our expense, we believe it is. Our response to whether it is reasonable to expect a player not to take advantage of a gaming exploit, well that?s like laying a stack of 50?s in front of a total stranger, leaving the room and expecting none to be missing when you return
***Thank you, you gave me the perfect analogy in your own writing. Just because you lay a stack of 50's infront of a stranger, doesn't mean it's right for him to take it. It's still wrong. Just because you know it's very likely that he will take it, doesn't make it right when he does.
Discuss.