TKC-Community

General Public Section => Off Topic => Section of Philosophy => Topic started by: i R Cheater on January 18, 2008, 03:24:37 am

Title: Why do we cheat?
Post by: i R Cheater on January 18, 2008, 03:24:37 am
Why do we cheat? Why do we need to do things that that a non-cheater can't do or simply chooses not to do... Is it for power?

In some games, a cheater can make bombs rain from the sky at his will. He has the power to go anywhere in an instant. A president or king has the ability to make decisions that affect millions of lives and a server administrator could remove a players ability to play but why does he feel the need to do it? Is it for power?

Why does it feel good to be able to do things that other palyers can't or won't do  :icon_confused2

Why does it make us laugh when other players display their emotions because some players are doing things that they cannot?
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: ZOldDude on January 18, 2008, 03:28:44 am
The short answere is FUN.
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: [TKC]Symantic on January 18, 2008, 03:42:39 am
Kind of the same philosophy applied into freerunner philosophy, i think the answer is "just cause we can". now, free running and some instances in parkour take paths no normal person can just to feel like they are not being "held back".  why walk around a rail when you can go through it or over it?
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: thumper on January 31, 2008, 08:37:09 am
I think of it like this.

Let's compare a Special Forces soldier vs. a random, poorly trained Insurgent. Let's compare the equipment and technology available to the SF vs. the Insurgent.

The SF has access to GPS, satellites, intel, weapons that can SEE AROUND CORNERS and fire without risk to the shooter, etc. etc. Not to mention they've gone through incredibly taxing and brutal training. (and passed it)

The Insurgent... well, they got handed an AK47, some Opium, and were told to point it at the enemy and pull the trigger.


Using cheats, we're like the SF soldiers against a bunch of Insurgents. It's not called cheating in REAL combat when one side uses technological advances against the other, right? And hacks are just technological advances.

 :icon_o_o


(Granted, I usually play without them, I only use cheats when I feel like it... so... uhh.. yeah, to sum that all up, cheats = FUN)
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: ZOldDude on January 31, 2008, 01:46:07 pm
I don't cheat in contests.
Thats why they are called a -contest-.
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: PREDATOR on March 01, 2008, 05:04:21 pm
Gotta agree with Zold there. Cheating is just for fun. I use it to blow off steam, and embarrass my buddies with mass pwnage.  Lately, I've only played online in tourneys and contests. Had a few clans last year, but didn't do too much with them, sold my PSP and games.

When I get back to gaming on the regular, I'll have to link up with you guys and see if you've improved at all  :icon_razz2
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: Jimmy on May 14, 2008, 05:35:59 pm
The short answere is FUN.

So its fun to ruin peoples expectations once they join a server someone actually pays for, to find some guy in there that can score 999 flags in about 3 minutes, and killing everyone in the server the very same time?

If your answer is yes, I can only draw the conclusion you do it for more then just fun.
In the normal sense, people do stuff that is fun, without annoying other people, because as we all learned, annoying, is not fun.
So, basicly what you are saying is, I recognize the fact people are annoyed by me, but, I put my personal joy over those that are annoyed by my behaviour.

Which brings me to the conlusion, that besides acting selfish, its also very childish to do so.

I'm not convicting those that do cheat, this is just my thought on the case.  :icon_thumbsup
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: b00n on May 14, 2008, 09:11:37 pm
right right right
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: MrMedic on May 14, 2008, 10:30:43 pm

So its fun to ruin peoples expectations once they join a server someone actually pays for

yes ?
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: Jimmy on May 14, 2008, 10:59:10 pm
thanks for underlining my point  :icon_thumbsup
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: MrMedic on May 14, 2008, 11:39:52 pm
no problem :icon_thumbsup

Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: Crossmol on May 15, 2008, 12:50:58 pm
Why do we cheat?
As a wise UK bastard once said: 'Because we can.....'
I have to agree with that  :icon_biggrin2

On the other hand, as I stated before (way back): We're not cheating, we're using the features of the game. It's just that most people haven't discovered them yet.

So its fun to ruin peoples expectations once they join a server someone actually pays for, to find some guy in there that can score 999 flags in about 3 minutes, and killing everyone in the server the very same time?
Usually when a 'cheater' owns on such server he gets kicked and banned. Why? Because the admin payed for the server (as you stated) and he disagrees with the 'cheaters' gameplay. Now basicly he can do whatever he want because he payed for his game(server). The 'cheaters' also payed for their games wich makes it legally his so he can play the game as he sees fit as well. Serveradmins usually want everybody 'to obey their master'. Sounds a bit dodgy to me.

The game manuals usually state that you can play online on many servers. It never says anything about a 12 year old admin who bans people because he gets owned (example) and doesn't aprove your gamingstyle. Basicly what I'm trying to say tat everybody is entitled to play the game they payed for in their own way, with or without extra features. It's called freedom.
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: Jimmy on May 15, 2008, 01:18:37 pm
I don't agree with that.
I think its rather childish to actually state: "oh it doesnt says in the manual/case that I can't use a wallhack, so here i go!"
I also don't understand your point when it comes to the 12 years old admin.
Wether you like it or not, its his server, period.
If he wants to ban everybody, its his right, not saying its good though.
I also read from your post Crossmol, that you concur with the fact admins ban cheaters, that you accept this respond to cheating.
But why is there a unbanner tool created then?  :smile
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: Crossmol on May 15, 2008, 01:43:47 pm
I can't use a wallhack, so here i go!
I didn't say use a wallhack. What I ment to say was is that the manuals say that you can play online, no more, no less. They should add something like that you might be banned/kicked by admins for not leveling with them (something like that).

I also don't understand your point when it comes to the 12 years old admin.
That was just an example, altho you know that there are a lot of childish admins out there that ban people for no good reason like camping, offering opinions etc etc.

Wether you like it or not, its his server, period.
If he wants to ban everybody, its his right, not saying its good though.
True spoken, because he payed for the server, just as I payed for my copy of the game.

I also read from your post Crossmol, that you concur with the fact admins ban cheaters, that you accept this respond to cheating.
The word 'cheating' is between quotes because IMHO it's not cheating. Some call it cheating, some creative gaming, some using features of the game etc etc. What I'm trying to say is that everybody is entitled to play the game they payed for in a way that they see fit. I think this part will never be solved because everybody has it's own opinion about this. It's one of those discussions that has no end.

Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: [TKC]Symantic on May 15, 2008, 01:46:40 pm
But why is there a unbanner tool created then?  :smile
cause people be hating up in dere.
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: Jimmy on May 15, 2008, 02:30:49 pm
Quote
I didn't say use a wallhack. What I ment to say was is that the manuals say that you can play online, no more, no less. They should add something like that you might be banned/kicked by admins for not leveling with them (something like that).

That's one way of putting it.
So if i'm not mistaken, you say: "The game tells me i can play online, not how i should play it, this is up to the admins that host the server"
But if that is true, then why do you think the developers of the game (im using vc in my example) created an anti-cheat?

Quote
That was just an example, altho you know that there are a lot of childish admins out there that ban people for no good reason like camping, offering opinions etc etc.

Sure there are, but why should that be a reason to start "gaming creatively"?, can only think its to annoy people :)

Quote
True spoken, because he payed for the server, just as I payed for my copy of the game.

So what if the server, or server message holds some text as: no cheating... or as you call it, creative gaming?
Will you respect the decission of the one sponsoring the server for the community, or does this just motivates you to game creative on such servers?

The fact you purchased a game (if its purchased in the first place) is not a valid argument to destroy ones experience in a server where big money is payed for in the first place, and hosted with a surten goal. (mostly, its not cheating)

Quote
The word 'cheating' is between quotes because IMHO it's not cheating. Some call it cheating, some creative gaming, some using features of the game etc etc. What I'm trying to say is that everybody is entitled to play the game they payed for in a way that they see fit. I think this part will never be solved because everybody has it's own opinion about this. It's one of those discussions that has no end.

i absolutely agree with the fact people should play the game in a way they prefer, but obviously, this has to be done with respect for other people!
And the fact there are some childish admins shoudn't be a reason for you to ignore this, that makes you no better then any other disrespectfull admin.

My overall thoughts with cheating is:

1: it is done because i want to win, and can't do so fairly, no matter why.
2: it is done because i want to annoy people.
3: it is because im bored with the game, and i want to do things differently.





Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: MrMedic on May 15, 2008, 03:33:14 pm

crossmol made some very valid points in reply.

it's basically :

1: it is done because i want to win, and can't do so fairly, no matter why.
2: it is done because i want to annoy people.
3: it is because im bored with the game, and i want to do things differently.
4: because we can...

which is the truest statement ever posted on the internet :)


btw jimmy have you ever used a cheat in a game ?


Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: Jimmy on May 15, 2008, 03:59:41 pm
because we can... come on!
Thats an answer i expect to receive from some frustrated teenager.
Its the same as.. "that's why".
This section is about finding proper answer to the question why do we cheat, because we can... is a pethatic answer.

Yes i've used cheats in games, even online.
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: Crossmol on May 15, 2008, 04:18:32 pm
So if i'm not mistaken, you say: "The game tells me i can play online, not how i should play it, this is up to the admins that host the server"
First part: Yes, second part: No.
There are several types of players, for example in VC you have rushers, defenders, attackers etc etc. No admin can tell you what to do, what poisition to take etc. It the player that decides that. An admin can ask, not boss you around.
The best thing for an admin then would be to select his players by using msn/icq (you know what i mean) and put a password on the gameserver. That way only his choise of people will join that server.

Sure there are, but why should that be a reason to start "gaming creatively"?, can only think its to annoy people
It's not a reason, it's a choise that has been made way before they enter servers.


So what if the server, or server message holds some text as: no cheating... or as you call it, creative gaming?
Will you respect the decission of the one sponsoring the server for the community, or does this just motivates you to game creative on such servers?
I personally don't care about servermessages. But basicly what you're saying is that the admin tells me how to play my game, that's not freedom. And about respect: What's the use to respect them if they don't respect me?


(if its purchased in the first place)
Hm... C'mon Jimmy, you can do better that that.

The fact you purchased a game (if its purchased in the first place) is not a valid argument to destroy ones experience in a server where big money is payed for in the first place, and hosted with a surten goal. (mostly, its not cheating)
In other words: they can/may destroy my experience in a server because the dictator-admin says so? Doesn't seem right.

i absolutely agree with the fact people should play the game in a way they prefer, but obviously, this has to be done with respect for other people!
And the fact there are some childish admins shoudn't be a reason for you to ignore this, that makes you no better then any other disrespectfull admin.

Ofcourse. And the way I see it is that the admins do not respect my kind of gameplay and forcing me to play the game to their needs. And I'm not ignoring this issue. I think everybody is entitled to have his own opinion on any subject, not just on gaming. The fact that admins want to controll  players is something I don't like, no matter how they play.


My overall thoughts with cheating is:

1: it is done because i want to win, and can't do so fairly, no matter why.
2: it is done because i want to annoy people.
3: it is because im bored with the game, and i want to do things differently.

1. I disagree but I respect your opinion.
2. I disagree but I respect your opinion.
3. I disagree but I respect your opinion.

If you ever visit any server where I have admin privileges I will not ban you for playing the game the way you want to play it. Little bit of sarcasm here but I think you know what I'm trying to say: I respect the players who join the server I have admin privileges on. And that currently on VC, Bf2, BF2142 and CSS.
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: Jimmy on May 15, 2008, 04:22:05 pm
I respect your opinions too, even though i think differently  :smile
Sorry I insinuated you don't purchased games, that wasn't my intention.
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: Crossmol on May 15, 2008, 04:40:33 pm
I respect your opinions too, even though i think differently  :smile
I'm glad that people who have differend opinions still can talk/type as civilized people  :icon_thumbsup

Sorry I insinuated you don't purchased games, that wasn't my intention.
I know m8, no worries.
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: MrMedic on May 15, 2008, 04:57:24 pm
because we can... come on!
Thats an answer i expect to receive from some frustrated teenager.

aww come on .. maybe i am a twat ..* teenager

seriously if you want the real answer , come on my ts sometime and you will find out why we cheat :) and btw im not really a twat , im more in the grey area of c-nt and bas-ard :) lol
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: MrMedic on May 15, 2008, 05:02:03 pm

Sorry I insinuated you don't purchased games, that wasn't my intention.
I know m8, no worries.


votekick ? ( holiday again tomorrow m8 .. lafflee cant wait , ts will be off as usual , be on tonight for some serious gameing if you can crossy )

btw jim , truth is , i cheat because it makes me laugh and i find it funny pissing off people and beating other hackers ... thats the truth and we have a great laugh doing it , theres also a bonus i make money from saleing hacks as well.
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: Jimmy on May 15, 2008, 05:10:31 pm
now thats an answer medic  :icon_cool2
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: ZOldDude on May 16, 2008, 10:00:35 am
The short answere is FUN.

So its fun to ruin peoples expectations once they join a server someone actually pays for, to find some guy in there that can score 999 flags in about 3 minutes, and killing everyone in the server the very same time?

If your answer is yes, I can only draw the conclusion you do it for more then just fun.
In the normal sense, people do stuff that is fun, without annoying other people, because as we all learned, annoying, is not fun.
So, basicly what you are saying is, I recognize the fact people are annoyed by me, but, I put my personal joy over those that are annoyed by my behaviour.

Which brings me to the conlusion, that besides acting selfish, its also very childish to do so.

I'm not convicting those that do cheat, this is just my thought on the case.  :icon_thumbsup

First off let me say it's good to hear from you after all this time Jimmy....try not to stay away so long next time.
I also see Pimp Cong is still alive even if it is not yet finished after all these years.

As far as "cheating" and me trying things out for -fun- as I have said...I have never killed or infringed on anyones expectations when testing things.

Z

PS:
I have heard from some of the old Black Watch guys in the past few months,let me know if you want to get ahold of them.
Right now I am busy moving my household from L.A. to northern California but I still get on the internet off and one. Moving should be compleat by the end of next month.
Title: Re: Why do we cheat?
Post by: MrCamo on March 13, 2016, 04:07:26 pm
Because cheating benefits in all areas of life. One drawback is you can get caught red-handed and punished. If it weren't for consequences. Every one would cheat.