TKC-Community

Hacking and Art => Armed Assault 3 => Armed Assault => Topic started by: Doolittle on September 21, 2007, 12:49:19 am

Title: Making money off of you
Post by: Doolittle on September 21, 2007, 12:49:19 am
You know how McAfee and Symantec only really exist because there are virus makers out there?

Hypothetically speaking, if I had created a system that allowed server operators to keep their server free from SCP users specifically, would you have issue with me charging money for this system? If I charged for updates every time you guys released a new version, and I was able to make money off of that too, just like virus makers release new viruses all the time and McAfee has to release updates... would you take issue?

I just want to make sure because I stand on the morally high ground looking down on you. I would hate to lower myself in any way.

Doolittle
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: CoLT on September 21, 2007, 01:32:51 am
ban
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: M. O. on September 21, 2007, 01:39:52 am
So, you're asking us for what we think about morale because you're "on the morally high ground looking down" on us? Where did the logics go?

However, you're free to do it, and naturally we won't like it, because it will limit our freedom. But you'll fail  :icon_laugh


Quote
ban

nono, maybe on their forum, but not here.  :icon_thumbsup
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 21, 2007, 01:50:37 am
Quote
would you have issue with me charging money for this system

I don't see this as a vast commercial endever unlike the games developer or publisher using anything that is copyrighted by TKC...they would get sued mostly because the I.P. attorneys here in Los Angeles would see them as "deep pockets".

If you can get server owners to "donate" then it is not the same thing in my mind and I wish you the best for your efforts.
Lord only knows you will be forever busy.

Another way of looking at it and more correctly stated is you are NOT "Making money off of you
" as the thread title is worded but making money BECUASE of TKC.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Doolittle on September 21, 2007, 01:57:20 am
As far as legal issues, who speaks for SuperCheatPack (also known as SCP) as a product? I mean, who will be saying, "That is okay"? Am I correct in assuming ZOldDude is the "voice" of this organization?

Doolittle
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: [TKC]Anothercheater on September 21, 2007, 02:52:42 am
As far as legal issues, who speaks for SuperCheatPack (also known as SCP) as a product? I mean, who will be saying, "That is okay"? Am I correct in assuming ZOldDude is the "voice" of this organization?

Doolittle

No, everyone in here has the same right of voice and TKC is not an organisation in the sence of laws, its a multiplayer/online cheating and teamkilling community (TKC=TeamKill and Cheat community).

So since we are not breaking any existing or non exisiting "ANTI MULTIPLAYER CHEATING ACT" we must be breaking some kind of moral which is pretty funny because your trying to clear up our minds by trying to "lower" or make our self esteem look lower than what it actually is?

I'm not sure what your trying to say by your last posts, but are maybe trying to say that you want to start a new anti-cheat war with us which would be fun because it would be fun for us to break your system and it would be fun for you to break our system again and make money out of something as long as the server owners are willing to pay money every time or once to get a so called "supercheat free" server? The winner will be the one who has more time/resources to develop all this (cheat/anticheat).
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: MrMedic on September 21, 2007, 03:29:20 am
You know how McAfee and Symantec only really exist because there are virus makers out there?

Hypothetically speaking, if I had created a system that allowed server operators to keep their server free from SCP users specifically, would you have issue with me charging money for this system? If I charged for updates every time you guys released a new version, and I was able to make money off of that too, just like virus makers release new viruses all the time and McAfee has to release updates... would you take issue?

I just want to make sure because I stand on the morally high ground looking down on you. I would hate to lower myself in any way.

Doolittle

truth is i can do this without even thinking but the truth is if i was about to release it would i post it on a cheat forums , unless i was a: a dickhead or b: a fucking idiot ?

dont ban him lets see what he has to say
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: MrMedic on September 21, 2007, 03:34:29 am
As far as legal issues, who speaks for SuperCheatPack (also known as SCP) as a product? I mean, who will be saying, "That is okay"? Am I correct in assuming ZOldDude is the "voice" of this organization?

Doolittle

release your anticheat , and i will smash it free of charge , and no zold dude is respected here but he does not speak for all of us , im a bit of a loaner and i am the one here at the moment who if you make n ac will destroy it , good luck it will be fun taking it apart :)
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 21, 2007, 03:37:02 am
As far as legal issues, who speaks for SuperCheatPack (also known as SCP) as a product? I mean, who will be saying, "That is okay"? Am I correct in assuming ZOldDude is the "voice" of this organization?

Doolittle

Me?
Only in part.

I am one of the Admin who has full control of the forums as opposed to a Moderator of a section.
In regards to any legal issues involving violation of TKC copyright...which is what I think your asking about...it would need to be decided at a point in time that the sysop and other admin deem necessary.

Hosting was set up in L.A. California for a reason.
It is basically understood among the sysops staff of admin that any court case involving the site/forums be held in Los Angeles, California U.S.A. and that I be the person who represents the sysops interests. Such cases are likely to involve international scope and law and be very costly to those bringing suit/tort against TKC.
Any such action that is not a violation of US or Californian law are doomed from the start.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: MrMedic on September 21, 2007, 03:42:01 am
As far as legal issues, who speaks for SuperCheatPack (also known as SCP) as a product? I mean, who will be saying, "That is okay"? Am I correct in assuming ZOldDude is the "voice" of this organization?

Doolittle

Me?
Only in part.

I am one of the Admin who has full control of the forums as opposed to a Moderator of a section.
In regards to any legal issues involving violation of TKC copyright...which is what I think your asking about...it would need to be decided at a point in time that the sysop and other admin deem necessary.

Hosting was set up in L.A. California for a reason.
It is basically understood among the sysops staff of admin that any court case involving the site/forums be held in Los Angeles, California U.S.A. and that I be the person who represents the sysops interests. Such cases are likely to involve international scope and law and be very costly to those bringing suit/tort against TKC.
Any such action that is not a violation of US or Californian law are doomed from the start.

they wont take any action lol , they havent got the resoursces half of them are still in mom and dads house not even paying rent m8 , your just justifying their presence by replying to them.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: d3dsh33p on September 21, 2007, 05:55:13 am
You know how McAfee and Symantec only really exist because there are virus makers out there?

Hypothetically speaking, if I had created a system that allowed server operators to keep their server free from SCP users specifically, would you have issue with me charging money for this system? If I charged for updates every time you guys released a new version, and I was able to make money off of that too, just like virus makers release new viruses all the time and McAfee has to release updates... would you take issue?

I just want to make sure because I stand on the morally high ground looking down on you. I would hate to lower myself in any way.

Doolittle

huh?

entire businesses were created after people like us man :icon_thumbsup
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Doolittle on September 21, 2007, 06:12:18 am
No, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I am not wanting to take you on legally. I was trying to clear things up with you for my sake, since I would be mentioning your product in any write up we do. Like "this system will protect you from users of the SuperCheatPack".

...and the idea that I am making money off of your actions per say. I am not a legal person, just a programmer. So I was just musing.. using the word hypothetical, etc.

And I am expecting you to defeat this so-called system. That is why I plan on having an update program. By program, I don't mean computer program, but a monthly fee for any update that comes out. You need to understand how much money people are spending on these servers. It's rather big business. With you guys coming along and ruining that.. ecosystem... I could come in and set the balance.

I suppose a lot of comparisons could be made: graffiti artists tag up the city and then photographers come along, take pictures and sell this book, making money off of someone else's work. Home invasion alarms and window bars are sold because people fear criminals. The whole world is full of examples of people making the best of the situation if you will... the one good thing I'm hoping for is that what you guys have made is rather illegal and so I wouldn't need to worry about paying anyone anything (BIS is grateful for this system so you are all that's left in the equation.). Just like the book people didn't have to pay the graffiti artists. Just like the news doesn't have to pay the murders in the world when they report on them in their show.

Again, this is all hypothetical.

Doolittle
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 21, 2007, 06:50:04 am
Quote
You need to understand how much money people are spending on these servers. It's rather big business.
I know allot of people who sale game servers so I know what the prices are for both them and their customers.

Quote
the one good thing I'm hoping for is that what you guys have made is rather illegal
Not in the least bit illegal...that is one of the functions I serve for the sysop,to make certain he has no problems along that train.

Quote
And I am expecting you to defeat this so-called system.
Good because I also expect the same.
The new BI Sig program has already been cracked and turned into a cheat making tool so you can see how fast these guys work.

Quote
That is why I plan on having an update program. By program, I don't mean computer program, but a monthly fee for any update that comes out.
Like I said these guys will keep you busy and I hope your able to earn a few "donations" for your efforts.





Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: [TKC]Symantic on September 21, 2007, 10:18:04 am
You want me to be a programmer on your anti-cheat system, i swear i wont tell anyone your secrets  :icon_devil
*thinks to self*
just to fool you into thinking that, i will charge 10 dollars an hour....
i hope you bite.

oops did i say that out loud?

Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: M. O. on September 21, 2007, 04:19:54 pm
Z has almost been here from the start, he has a lot of experience and usually has a focus towards community/user relations and security. All decisions the Central Committee makes are discussed with him (and the rest of the CC of course).

Quote
I suppose a lot of comparisons could be made: graffiti artists tag up the city and then photographers come along, take pictures and sell this book, making money off of someone else's work.


That's how the economy works. Employers pay you less than what you give them through your work. That's how they make profit. However, you should be checking with BIS. I think they've stated that you can't make money on their products. I doubt you'll re-distribute any of our releases.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 21, 2007, 06:08:45 pm
Quote
The new BI Sig program has already been cracked and turned into a cheat making tool so you can see how fast these guys work.
Really? No surprise there. Got any more info on that?
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 21, 2007, 06:22:45 pm
Quote
The new BI Sig program has already been cracked and turned into a cheat making tool so you can see how fast these guys work.
Really? No surprise there. Got any more info on that?

Read this thread and look at post # 3...
http://tkc-community.net/forum/index.php?topic=6332.0
Nothing has changed other than the tools are now public and have been applied to make cheats pass BI's Sig verification.
Now thanks to BI...all TKC cheats can be "official" on protected servers.
I am sure you will see examples as moders and servers start using the tools.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 21, 2007, 06:35:16 pm
Quote
The new BI Sig program has already been cracked and turned into a cheat making tool so you can see how fast these guys work.
Really? No surprise there. Got any more info on that?

Read this thread and look at post # 3...
http://tkc-community.net/forum/index.php?topic=6332.0
Nothing has changed other than the tools are now public and have been applied to make cheats pass BI's Sig verification.
Now thanks to BI...all TKC cheats can be "official" on protected servers.
I am sure you will see examples as moders and servers start using the tools.

That ancient thread doesn't tell me anything. Can you show me where/how these tools have been applied to make cheats? Or at least show me some proof?
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: [TKC]Wesker on September 21, 2007, 06:41:25 pm
So you can run off and snitch about it  :icon_laugh
(http://loop.smorgasblog.com/archives/snitch.jpg)
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 21, 2007, 06:50:59 pm
So you can run off and snitch about it  :icon_laugh
(http://loop.smorgasblog.com/archives/snitch.jpg)

Probably so he can be insulting on YouTube.

strykir asks:
Quote
That ancient thread doesn't tell me anything. Can you show me where/how these tools have been applied to make cheats? Or at least show me some proof?
Z said:
Quote
I am sure you will see examples as moders and servers start using the tools.

As I said READ post #3 in that thread...it basically tells you everything you would ever need to know about anti-cheat efforts/programs and TKC programming for any game,at any point in time,forever and always.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 21, 2007, 07:28:50 pm
So you can run off and snitch about it  :icon_laugh
Assuming the devs read these forums, why would I need to? They are doing their own thing. I realise you all know who I am, that doesn't bother me.

Quote
As I said READ post #3 in that thread...it basically tells you everything you would ever need to know about anti-cheat efforts/programs and TKC programming for any game,at any point in time,forever and always.
It doesn't tell me anything new, and doesn't answer my question.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: bando on September 21, 2007, 07:39:38 pm
lost ten minutes of my time reading this topic :(
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 21, 2007, 08:22:27 pm
Quote
I realise you all know who I am, that doesn't bother me.

Doesn't bother me either and I would be the last person to rat you out.

Myself I would like to fish the area near you.
Starting in July I've doing my work via the internet while I have been traveling California fishing. Last week the salmon started to reach Lake Oroville (highest dam in the USA) at the top of the Feather River.
I got a 23 lb'er....rather small for this type of fish but I am using ultra lite tackle with 4 lb test line.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: bando on September 21, 2007, 08:42:07 pm
Quote
...I am using ultra lite tackle with 4 lb test line.

OMG , no surprise we re world champions every year then!


(http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1300/51dwgygyyjlss400pe4.th.jpg) (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=51dwgygyyjlss400pe4.jpg)

(http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4868/41wflfcvslss400gr4.th.jpg) (http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=41wflfcvslss400gr4.jpg)
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Evillor on September 21, 2007, 08:44:15 pm
No, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I am not wanting to take you on legally. I was trying to clear things up with you for my sake, since I would be mentioning your product in any write up we do. Like "this system will protect you from users of the SuperCheatPack".

...and the idea that I am making money off of your actions per say. I am not a legal person, just a programmer. So I was just musing.. using the word hypothetical, etc.

And I am expecting you to defeat this so-called system. That is why I plan on having an update program. By program, I don't mean computer program, but a monthly fee for any update that comes out. You need to understand how much money people are spending on these servers. It's rather big business. With you guys coming along and ruining that.. ecosystem... I could come in and set the balance.

I suppose a lot of comparisons could be made: graffiti artists tag up the city and then photographers come along, take pictures and sell this book, making money off of someone else's work. Home invasion alarms and window bars are sold because people fear criminals. The whole world is full of examples of people making the best of the situation if you will... the one good thing I'm hoping for is that what you guys have made is rather illegal and so I wouldn't need to worry about paying anyone anything (BIS is grateful for this system so you are all that's left in the equation.). Just like the book people didn't have to pay the graffiti artists. Just like the news doesn't have to pay the murders in the world when they report on them in their show.

Again, this is all hypothetical.

Doolittle

I hope your little venture will be all legitimate. As in if your making money of it, you are tax registered with a small business license depending on where you are based. I would hate for someone to report you doolittle and have you in any trouble. By the way i enjoyed playing on your server the other day, was lots of fun. 
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Doolittle on September 21, 2007, 09:27:11 pm
When did I get a server?
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 22, 2007, 03:42:44 am
Quote
...I am using ultra lite tackle with 4 lb test line.

OMG , no surprise we re world champions every year then!


(http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1300/51dwgygyyjlss400pe4.th.jpg) (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=51dwgygyyjlss400pe4.jpg)

(http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4868/41wflfcvslss400gr4.th.jpg) (http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=41wflfcvslss400gr4.jpg)

Hey...thats not Ultra Lite gear!
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Evillor on September 22, 2007, 08:36:05 am
When did I get a server?

Well it was either your server, a server you are admin, or someone using Doolittle as a name.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 22, 2007, 07:00:00 pm
Quote
I realise you all know who I am, that doesn't bother me.

Doesn't bother me either and I would be the last person to rat you out.
Rat me out? For what?  :icon_razz2
Quote
Myself I would like to fish the area near you.
Starting in July I've doing my work via the internet while I have been traveling California fishing. Last week the salmon started to reach Lake Oroville (highest dam in the USA) at the top of the Feather River.
I got a 23 lb'er....rather small for this type of fish but I am using ultra lite tackle with 4 lb test line.
LOL man whatever. You want to fly all the way here?  :icon_teehee
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 22, 2007, 09:25:54 pm
When I was young I wanted to pork as many chicks as I could before I died,now that I am -allot- older I want to fish every country on the planet.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: [TKC]Symantic on September 23, 2007, 06:35:38 am
Z, im going to do you one better, fish and pork every state.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 23, 2007, 07:20:33 am
Anyhow back to the Sig tools being used as a way to make cheats "official" Suma said:
Quote
Suma
ArmA Lead Programmer



Group: BI Forum Team
Posts: 2968
Joined: June 2001  Posted: Sep. 22 2007,21:13 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Given no game developer was able to come up with a reliable copy and reverse engineering protection for their own games, I afraid expecting to get this for user content is simply not realistic, and I am convinced it will not become possible until some trusted computing platform (like MS Palladium proposed some time ago) will be widely adopted. As the trusted computing faces a lot of opposition, I think you will have to wait very long for this.

Currently no reliable encryption is possible, because the game needs to be able to decrypt the data, and as long as anyone can reverse engineer the game, anyone can get the decryption key. Hacking any such encryption is so easy it is simply not worth implementing it.

 

So as it is not -worth- trying to -protect- maps/mods/core .exe I wonder why they even bothered to try.
All they have done is provide a way to make cheats undetectable on server with the "Sig Protection System" being used.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 23, 2007, 03:50:26 pm
Anyhow back to the Sig tools being used as a way to make cheats "official" Suma said:
Quote
Suma
ArmA Lead Programmer



Group: BI Forum Team
Posts: 2968
Joined: June 2001  Posted: Sep. 22 2007,21:13 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Given no game developer was able to come up with a reliable copy and reverse engineering protection for their own games, I afraid expecting to get this for user content is simply not realistic, and I am convinced it will not become possible until some trusted computing platform (like MS Palladium proposed some time ago) will be widely adopted. As the trusted computing faces a lot of opposition, I think you will have to wait very long for this.

Currently no reliable encryption is possible, because the game needs to be able to decrypt the data, and as long as anyone can reverse engineer the game, anyone can get the decryption key. Hacking any such encryption is so easy it is simply not worth implementing it.

 

So as it is not -worth- trying to -protect- maps/mods/core .exe I wonder why they even bothered to try.
All they have done is provide a way to make cheats undetectable on server with the "Sig Protection System" being used.

That topic wasn't about cheat prevention, Suma wasn't referring to cheats. Read it again  :icon_razz2
Yea I know what you're trying to say though. No perfect way to get rid of cheats. But at least it has the potential to slow them down enough for the rest of us to enjoy the game. If they didn't try to slow cheats down, the situation could be worse (hell, it is already terrible!).
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 23, 2007, 06:19:20 pm
Yeah...he is just acknowledging the fact that -any form of encryption- that a program uses that needs to be read is a waste of time as the program it's self has the information to decrypt it.

My point was that the Sig tools can now be used to spoof the "Sig key" of any part of the game,mission,map,mod and all cheats could be placed into any of these while "protected servers" accept them as -genuine-.

As the ArmA community is under 1,000 on-line players on a weekend I hope this modded tool set is not made public for a few months.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 23, 2007, 11:51:16 pm
Yeah...he is just acknowledging the fact that -any form of encryption- that a program uses that needs to be read is a waste of time as the program it's self has the information to decrypt it.
Not a complete waste of time, since if it is made well enough then it can take time to crack. That time can still be useful. Although most copy protections for games are a complete waste of money since they get cracked in no time, it's just a failed attempt by publishers to get a few extra sales.

My point was that the Sig tools can now be used to spoof the "Sig key" of any part of the game,mission,map,mod and all cheats could be placed into any of these while "protected servers" accept them as -genuine-.

As the ArmA community is under 1,000 on-line players on a weekend I hope this modded tool set is not made public for a few months.
That's pretty sad IMO. Releasing those sig spoof programs would do some serious damage to ArmA MP.
How would a server then be able to stay cheat-free? And I'm still wondering where exactly you get this info?
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 24, 2007, 05:54:16 pm
Suma's post: http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?s=bf875bd4eae1fa06f6a88c244460a0ab;act=ST;f=67;t=68468;st=30

 :icon_laugh

ZOldDude, I'm wondering if you are actually telling the truth about cracking the signatures. Or is it done a different way?
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 24, 2007, 07:22:33 pm
 :icon_rolleyes2
It is easyer than most people think.

Under his post Matt says:
Quote
Yeah Suma. No Pbo can depbo my pbos without the know how to create them.
His protection does not protect from everyone.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 24, 2007, 07:36:49 pm
:icon_rolleyes2
So you don't know any more or don't want to say anymore then?
If you really are able to get addons past signature checks, then it must be by some other way, not by duplicating someone else's signature. Then if that is released, it should be possible for BIS to fix the exploit. Am I getting close?

Or are you just going to keep this all a secret?
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: [TKC]Wesker on September 24, 2007, 08:14:18 pm
Or are you just going to keep this all a secret?
Lol another pitiful attempt for inside info. You really don't get it do you.

Anyway later I'll demonstrate in a video me joining a BI signed server with maybe some nuke nades & super damage bullets.  :wink2
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 24, 2007, 08:22:12 pm
Lol another pitiful attempt for inside info. You really don't need to know how.
:icon_rolleyes2

Quote
Anyway later I'll demonstrate in a video me joining a BI signed server with maybe some nuke nades & super damage bullets.  :wink2
Yipee  :icon_rolleyes2
As long as some of the more major exploits are solved and we can admin servers properly, I'll be happy  :smile
I'm sure you are just using some kind of exploit to do this, instead of actually being able to sign addons with other people's signitures. I just want to know if I'm right. Or is this really a big secret?
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: [TKC]Wesker on September 24, 2007, 08:25:44 pm
I'm sure you are just using some kind of exploit to do this, instead of actually being able to sign addons with other people's signitures.
Regardless of what you may think the video will show modified files running happily on a signed server.
What more is there to discuss?
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 24, 2007, 08:45:46 pm
I'm sure you are just using some kind of exploit to do this, instead of actually being able to sign addons with other people's signitures.
Regardless of what you may think the video will show modified files running happily on a signed server.
What more is there to discuss?
I just wanted to know how it was done, that's all. If it's just an exploit, then it may not exist for much longer. If you really cracked the sig system (unlikely based on Suma's post), then it would be more serious.
Well since you wont answer me I'll just assume that I'm right :smile
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: [TKC]Wesker on September 24, 2007, 08:56:13 pm
Well since you wont answer me I'll just assume that I'm right :smile
Only time will tell.

I predict
1.08 = sigs cracked
1.09 = sigs cracked
1.10 = sigs cracked
1.11 = sigs cracked

No matter how many ArmA updates or security fixes the answer will be the same.
I'm saying that because that's how confident I am. If I'm wrong you can always come back here in the future and say "Haha, Wesker was wrong"  :icon_laugh
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 24, 2007, 09:28:42 pm
Well since you wont answer me I'll just assume that I'm right :smile
Only time will tell.

I predict
1.08 = sigs cracked
1.09 = sigs cracked
1.10 = sigs cracked
1.11 = sigs cracked

No matter how many ArmA updates or security fixes the answer will be the same.
I'm saying that because that's how confident I am. If I'm wrong you can always come back here in the future and say "Haha, Wesker was wrong"  :icon_laugh
Technically it's not the sigs you cracked, but a way around the verification system I bet. And yea, I'm sure you will dedicate you sad little life to make game cheats :icon_razz2
I'm not so sure there will be many, or any, patches after 1.09. It just doesn't seem worth it for BIS. Would be nice, but I don't expect it. That's going to make your little obsession pretty easy.
Now, are these hacks going to be released? And if so, when? This kind of stuff should never be released IMO, except to the devs.
It's sad that someone can be so desperate just to ruin a game.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: [TKC]Wesker on September 24, 2007, 09:49:35 pm
Lol, now now Matty no need to get upset, it's only a game.  :icon_laugh
You can claim I waste my life on hacking but the truth is it took less than 20mins of looking at the protection & it was broken.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 24, 2007, 10:09:07 pm
Lol, now now Matty no need to get upset, it's only a game.  :icon_laugh
I'm not really upset - hell, I've got much more important stuff to deal with right now. I just think it's kinda sad. Instead of making a small mod for ArmA that people could enjoy, I could have made cheats. Without the sig system ArmA has no cheat protection whatsoever. It's easy to make those little scripts that spawn crap, or alter weapons. But I didn't, and I never will make cheats to give me an unfair advantage or ruin the game for others. I know it's just a game, but a game should be fun and not have the experience ruined by assholes.

Quote
You can claim I waste my life on hacking but the truth is it took less than 20mins of looking at the protection & it was broken.
Good for you.

You seem a bit old to act so childish. Man, you're older than me. I've seen worse, but still  :icon_rolleyes2
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: [TKC]Wesker on September 24, 2007, 10:14:45 pm
Childish?
I have only laughed at the silly things you have wrote, that's all.
Anyway I'm done with back and forth talking with you.

Video is almost done.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 24, 2007, 10:20:31 pm
Childish?
I have only laughed at the silly things you have wrote, that's all.
I wasn't just referring to what you said, but the whole cheating thing. It seems you're also pretty stupid for your age.

Quote
Anyway I'm done with back and forth talking with you.
:icon_laugh
I thought you losers liked attention
 :icon_razz2

Quote
Video is almost done.
I'm so excited, I can't wait to see a video of you joining a server. Probably with gay music playing  :icon_rolleyes2  :icon_razz2
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: [TKC]Wesker on September 24, 2007, 11:26:04 pm
It seems you're also pretty stupid for your age.

Lol, sometimes I wounder how I got through Uni.
:icon_fluut
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 24, 2007, 11:44:34 pm
It seems you're also pretty stupid for your age.

Lol, sometimes I wounder how I got through Uni.
:icon_fluut
As if that makes you cool  :icon_rolleyes2

 :icon_razz2
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 25, 2007, 03:11:13 am
Bypassing protection when the TOOLS that make the protection are free to d/l is an easy thing to do and no harder than "encrypted software" that a game is able to read...the tools or the game disk hold all needed information.

Want to try a higher challenge?
Try to open an 8 character .rar file.
Last time I did that it took under one minute...ask K@os of the SCA Vietcong clan.

By the way I was 72 this July.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 25, 2007, 03:55:21 pm
Bypassing protection when the TOOLS that make the protection are free to d/l is an easy thing to do and no harder than "encrypted software" that a game is able to read...the tools or the game disk hold all needed information.
So you are saying that the encryption is cracked and you can now sign addons with anyone's signature, using only their public key/existing signitures? That's pretty damn serious if you can. I just got the impression that you couldn't do that from Suma's post and that makes me unsure.

Quote
By the way I was 72 this July.
Had no idea you were that old. Makes it even more surprising that you're here.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 25, 2007, 10:16:14 pm
Quote
I just got the impression that you couldn't do that from Suma's post

It's enough to stop/slow most people but you can not make anything secure if the TOOLS or the games INSTALL disk are in hand.

The tools part should be obvious...the game install disk perhaps not so.

IE: To protect a game you create a new class/extention of encypeted files that people can NOT open.
The problem is that the GAME needs to open them and has the key tool/decryptor information on it!
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: petr-van on September 26, 2007, 02:00:08 pm
I know something about cryptography (I have already used it my job for some comm tools for my clients), and what you write seems strange to me. The addons seem not to be encrypted at all - they are signed. The difference here is for decryption you need a private key, but for signature authentication the public one is enough. You can reverse engineer the "signature" verification as much as you want, and you should find what algorithm is used (most likely some RSA or AES variant?), but unless BS implemented something very wrong (which is possible, jugding by how many bugs they have in their games), you will not get a private key, and you will therefore not get a way to re-sign the addon.

On the same principle all e-mail digital signatures are constructed, or web site authentication. If you are really able to re-sign the modified addon, you could proly apply for a Nobel prize or something  :icon_o_o, because on the fact this is not possible a lot of real-world security is based on this, and nobody was able to beat it so far (which is why most attacks are based on exploiting SW bugs unrelated to the crypto algos, or by exploiting human factor, which is most often the weakest link).

Just my 2 cs.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 26, 2007, 05:57:23 pm
I know something about cryptography (I have already used it my job for some comm tools for my clients), and what you write seems strange to me. The addons seem not to be encrypted at all - they are signed. The difference here is for decryption you need a private key, but for signature authentication the public one is enough. You can reverse engineer the "signature" verification as much as you want, and you should find what algorithm is used (most likely some RSA or AES variant?), but unless BS implemented something very wrong (which is possible, jugding by how many bugs they have in their games), you will not get a private key, and you will therefore not get a way to re-sign the addon.

On the same principle all e-mail digital signatures are constructed, or web site authentication. If you are really able to re-sign the modified addon, you could proly apply for a Nobel prize or something  :icon_o_o, because on the fact this is not possible a lot of real-world security is based on this, and nobody was able to beat it so far (which is why most attacks are based on exploiting SW bugs unrelated to the crypto algos, or by exploiting human factor, which is most often the weakest link).

Just my 2 cs.

Thanks. That is why I think they're just using some workaround. Of course they refuse to say anything  :icon_rolleyes2
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 26, 2007, 08:24:42 pm
I know you have this "thing" about Weskers and it's fine with me if you guys want to go back and forth with each other all day long...but I told you how it was,gave you some examples and then you got a hi res video to put the truth in font of your eyes.

If what you REALLY want is the moded tool then just say so.
I have already stated that I am against this being handed out...but if ONE person gets it then it is only fair that EVERYONE should have it.
Right?

By the way do you want to see Nutty's sniffer program freak out?
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 26, 2007, 09:53:47 pm
I know you have this "thing" about Weskers and it's fine with me if you guys want to go back and forth with each other all day long...but I told you how it was,gave you some examples and then you got a hi res video to put the truth in font of your eyes.
Yea yea. I never said I didn't believe you about being able to get past the verification. I just doubt that you can actually sign stuff with other people's signatures. As I said, I just think it's an exploit. One that could possibly be fixed.

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If what you REALLY want is the moded tool then just say so.
I have already stated that I am against this being handed out...but if ONE person gets it then it is only fair that EVERYONE should have it.
Right?
No I don't want it. I don't think a tool like that should ever be released.

Quote
By the way do you want to see Nutty's sniffer program freak out?
Err, no. Why? You found a way to make it crash or something?
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 27, 2007, 12:00:38 am
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I just doubt that you can actually sign stuff with other people's signatures.
Easy as eating pie.
Quote
As I said, I just think it's an exploit. One that could possibly be fixed.
Nope...and it can't be "fixed".
Quote
No I don't want it. I don't think a tool like that should ever be released.
See,we agree.
Quote
You found a way to make it crash or something?
Crash? Why would anyone here want to crash anything?
That poorly programmed XAM mod or whatever it was called was what was crashing everything while haters blamed TKC for it.

Perhaps on November the 5Th people will notice some odd goings on.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 27, 2007, 01:43:45 am
Quote
I just doubt that you can actually sign stuff with other people's signatures.
Easy as eating pie.
Are you serious? I just find that hard to believe. Would you be willing to prove that by posting a signature using someone else's key? Then again maybe I shouldn't ask for that.
Quote
Quote
As I said, I just think it's an exploit. One that could possibly be fixed.
Nope...and it can't be "fixed".
Well that sucks
Quote
Quote
No I don't want it. I don't think a tool like that should ever be released.
See,we agree.
But it's going to be released regardless?
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Quote
You found a way to make it crash or something?
Crash? Why would anyone here want to crash anything?
That poorly programmed XAM mod or whatever it was called was what was crashing everything while haters blamed TKC for it.

Perhaps on November the 5Th people will notice some odd goings on.
Then what did you mean by seeing the program freak out? You found a way to fool it or what?
Some mass cheat/TK event on Nov 5th?

And I know about the XAM mod. Problem is that the server and all clients need to be running the mod because of it's features. When someone doesn't have it and it tries to do something that the non-mod machines can't handle - crash.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Doolittle on September 27, 2007, 03:25:07 am
FOR THE RECORD I am not nor will I ever charge for anti-cheat stuff. Yes, I am responsible for the thing that is currently stopping SCP from working on some servers but they were not charged for that. It was free and can be sent to you too if you are trustworthy.

Doolittle
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: bando on September 27, 2007, 05:25:40 am
I am responsible for the thing that is currently stopping SCP from working on some servers but they were not charged for that. It was free and can be sent to you too if you are trustworthy.

send it to Wesker , he s "trustworthy" :D
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 27, 2007, 06:00:04 am
Quote
Would you be willing to prove that by posting a signature using someone else's key?
You have a high res Divix movie.

Quote
But it's going to be released regardless?
Well I plan to cast a "NO" vote...but I am just one vote in the CC section.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 27, 2007, 06:02:06 am
I am responsible for the thing that is currently stopping SCP from working on some servers but they were not charged for that. It was free and can be sent to you too if you are trustworthy.

send it to Wesker , he s "trustworthy" :D

Name a server or two and perhaps we will post a new movie.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: bando on September 27, 2007, 10:38:07 am
I am responsible for the thing that is currently stopping SCP from working on some servers but they were not charged for that. It was free and can be sent to you too if you are trustworthy.

hahaha :D
send it to Wesker , he s "trustworthy" :D

Name a server or two and perhaps we will post a new movie.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: [TKC]Wesker on September 27, 2007, 02:05:00 pm
Just wait until I find what servers are running it  :wink2
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: bando on September 27, 2007, 02:08:58 pm
Just wait until I find what servers are running it  :wink2

loOl :D
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 27, 2007, 06:53:45 pm
Quote
Would you be willing to prove that by posting a signature using someone else's key?
You have a high res Divix movie.

I know, but I wanted to see if it's done by making new signitures or by some exploit to get around the checking.

Quote
Quote
But it's going to be released regardless?
Well I plan to cast a "NO" vote...but I am just one vote in the CC section.
Well since this is TKC, I'm sure the majority will vote "YES".  :icon_rolleyes2
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 27, 2007, 07:59:43 pm
Quote
Would you be willing to prove that by posting a signature using someone else's key?
You have a high res Divix movie.

I know, but I wanted to see if it's done by making new signitures or by some exploit to get around the checking.

Quote
Quote
But it's going to be released regardless?
Well I plan to cast a "NO" vote...but I am just one vote in the CC section.
Well since this is TKC, I'm sure the majority will vote "YES".  :icon_rolleyes2

Uses the SAME SIG as the map/mod the server expects to see...allowing cheats to be part of the map/mod rather than "stand alone".

When it comes to a vote....only CC members have one and all CC members are employed programmers/teachers/IT workers or managment.

(edited spelling)
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Easy_tiger on September 27, 2007, 08:54:52 pm
i'd vote NO aswell to releasing the ability to RE sig's to the general public

I reckon that it would just be to potent for public hands and would be detrimental to the game as a whole probably ending with general mayhem, no servers and no players

oh btw whats CC mean Z?






Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: [TKC]Wesker on September 27, 2007, 09:29:55 pm
i'd vote NO aswell to releasing the ability to RE sig's to the general public

I reckon that it would just be to potent for public hands and would be detrimental to the game as a whole probably ending with general mayhem, no servers and no players

oh btw whats CC mean Z?
Central Committee
That's me and a few others.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 27, 2007, 09:30:19 pm
Central Committee.
Other than what I already stated members must also be an active Mod on the forum for at least one year.
Only CC members have an active vote.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Easy_tiger on September 27, 2007, 09:31:29 pm
ah ha thanks for pointing that out guys!
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Doolittle on September 27, 2007, 10:27:31 pm
i'd vote NO aswell to releasing the ability to RE sig's to the general public

I reckon that it would just be to potent for public hands and would be detrimental to the game as a whole probably ending with general mayhem, no servers and no players


Why do you care about the public? I've never seen this side of you.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Evillor on September 27, 2007, 11:17:33 pm
i'd vote NO aswell to releasing the ability to RE sig's to the general public

I reckon that it would just be to potent for public hands and would be detrimental to the game as a whole probably ending with general mayhem, no servers and no players


Why do you care about the public? I've never seen this side of you.

Because people like you are too busy bashing us and seeing what you want to see, rather than whats actually there.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: [TKC]Wesker on September 27, 2007, 11:22:12 pm
Because people like you are too busy bashing us and seeing what you want to see, rather than whats actually there.
It couldn't of been said any better :icon_thumbsup
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Doolittle on September 28, 2007, 01:55:44 am
Because people like you are too busy bashing us and seeing what you want to see, rather than whats actually there.

Okay, I'll call your bluff. What do you see actually being there? How are you defining your actions in your mind?
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Evillor on September 28, 2007, 02:23:11 am
Because people like you are too busy bashing us and seeing what you want to see, rather than whats actually there.

Okay, I'll call your bluff. What do you see actually being there? How are you defining your actions in your mind?

Call my bluff? no bluff there at all. It was a simple statement. You (meaning all judgmental people who bash the people here) have decided we are the scum of the earth,  no matter what we say its wrong.  One of Z's posts, he said he owns some cheat free servers and he admins them correctly. What did he get? "what gives you the right to own a cheat free server".  Case and point.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: bando on September 28, 2007, 02:53:39 am
"the scum of the earth" loOl
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Doolittle on September 28, 2007, 05:56:05 am
What is it you say? What is it you are doing? What say you?

I don't bash people. I bash people's actions. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Junkz on September 28, 2007, 06:31:05 am
A cheater admin that doesnt cheat, owns a few cheat free servers yet supports all the cheats ???
This is getting confusing  :icon_o_o

What statment are TKC trying to put across to us non cheaters ??
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: bando on September 28, 2007, 06:51:32 am
A cheater admin that doesnt cheat, owns a few cheat free servers yet supports all the cheats ???
This is getting confusing  :icon_o_o

What statment are TKC trying to put across to us non cheaters ??

cheaters are also players like you , but they re just adding some more fun to the game.
can be taken as selfishness to u but just give it a try , you will enjoy it too!
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Frank P. on September 28, 2007, 10:14:24 am
What is it you say? What is it you are doing? What say you?

I don't bash people. I bash people's actions. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
Hate the game not the player.

When you think about it your the one thats got the problem with what we do so your the one with the problem not us.

Quote
A cheater admin that doesnt cheat, owns a few cheat free servers yet supports all the cheats ???
This is getting confusing  icon_o_o

What statment are TKC trying to put across to us non cheaters ??
I assume your talking about Z. Well I guess he cheats for pleasure as he isn't as much a heckler as the rest of us are. Being a moderator on a cheat forum doesn't necessarily mean he cheats. In the end it's his word that is his reasoning so wait for his reply.

TKC are NOT trying to put any statement out there to anti-cheaters. There's no message there. We don't cheat for recognition (cheat makers make cheats sometimes for recognition) or to try and look cool or to try and impress some people. Real cheats don't cheat for any of those reasons. They cheat for fun. To get something better than just the plain old game that they have played for days/weeks/months or even years.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Doolittle on September 28, 2007, 10:05:18 pm
When you think about it your the one thats got the problem with what we do so your the one with the problem not us.

Just like police have a problem with crime. Just like the military has a problem with IEDs. Etc.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: XX55XX on September 29, 2007, 03:17:01 am
It's a damn video game, either you start finding a decent private ArmA server or play another game. But I do appreciate it that our friend Doolittle is actually trying to do something about it rather than whine about it. I applaud that. But eventually, all of the leisure activities we do lose their luster and we do other things instead...

Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Frank P. on September 29, 2007, 08:21:52 am
When you think about it your the one thats got the problem with what we do so your the one with the problem not us.

Just like police have a problem with crime. Just like the military has a problem with IEDs. Etc.
The comparatives don't have anything to do with each other. If you didn't spend as much time on here as you do and you invest that wasted whining time in something like improving your so called 'anti-cheat' you might get somewhere. The police on the other hand don't spend time abusing the drug dealers, robbers etc (physically yes, verbally no :P). They do something about crime well for some cops they at least try and make a change. Your not helping anyone except probably your sexual fantasies by coming in enemy territory and complaining. All talk no show mate.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 29, 2007, 03:03:15 pm
When you think about it your the one thats got the problem with what we do so your the one with the problem not us.

Just like police have a problem with crime. Just like the military has a problem with IEDs. Etc.
The comparatives don't have anything to do with each other. If you didn't spend as much time on here as you do and you invest that wasted whining time in something like improving your so called 'anti-cheat' you might get somewhere. The police on the other hand don't spend time abusing the drug dealers, robbers etc (physically yes, verbally no :P). They do something about crime well for some cops they at least try and make a change. Your not helping anyone except probably your sexual fantasies by coming in enemy territory and complaining. All talk no show mate.
12/13 year old kid trying to act smart on the internet :icon_rolleyes2 Don't embarrass yourself. He is doing something about it.
"sexual fantasies"? What? You have no idea what's going on so stop talking bullshit. You wont be enjoying ArmA for much longer anyway :icon_laugh
It's not like you do anything here anyway, you just download cheats that someone else has made.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 29, 2007, 11:46:25 pm
Quote
You wont be enjoying ArmA for much longer anyway
Why is that?
Quote
It's not like you do anything here anyway, you just download cheats that someone else has made.
Hmmm...he knows how to program and has done work in other -more populated- games.
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: strykir on September 30, 2007, 12:58:54 am
Quote
You wont be enjoying ArmA for much longer anyway
Why is that?
Nothing :icon_rolleyes2
Quote
Quote
It's not like you do anything here anyway, you just download cheats that someone else has made.
Hmmm...he knows how to program and has done work in other -more populated- games.
But he's still a cheater :icon_razz2
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: ZOldDude on September 30, 2007, 01:18:57 am
Yeah you have a point there...but he can party till he pukes!
(http://www.fcuwe.co.uk/images/avatars/gallery/BigPack/dogtumoing.gif)
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Frank P. on September 30, 2007, 02:14:11 pm
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You wont be enjoying ArmA for much longer anyway
Why is that?
Nothing :icon_rolleyes2
Quote
Quote
It's not like you do anything here anyway, you just download cheats that someone else has made.
Hmmm...he knows how to program and has done work in other -more populated- games.
But he's still a cheater :icon_razz2
Heckler* I don't cheat in ArmA much anymore I just heckle because it's more fun :D
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: MrMedic on September 30, 2007, 08:08:32 pm
Quote
You wont be enjoying ArmA for much longer anyway
Why is that?
Nothing :icon_rolleyes2
Quote
Quote
It's not like you do anything here anyway, you just download cheats that someone else has made.
Hmmm...he knows how to program and has done work in other -more populated- games.
But he's still a cheater :icon_razz2
Heckler* I don't cheat in ArmA much anymore I just heckle because it's more fun :D

lol same here
Title: Re: Making money off of you
Post by: Frank P. on September 30, 2007, 11:43:05 pm
Quote
You wont be enjoying ArmA for much longer anyway
Why is that?
Nothing :icon_rolleyes2
Quote
Quote
It's not like you do anything here anyway, you just download cheats that someone else has made.
Hmmm...he knows how to program and has done work in other -more populated- games.
But he's still a cheater :icon_razz2
Heckler* I don't cheat in ArmA much anymore I just heckle because it's more fun :D

lol same here
:P Plus my mate doesn't like me cheating on his comp.