TKC-Community

Hacking and Art => Vietcong 1 & 2 => Demos => Topic started by: Oynky on November 24, 2005, 05:44:29 pm

Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: Oynky on November 24, 2005, 05:44:29 pm
OK. this works on uhm almost any version and file.

Open Game.dll with a editor,
now look for weap.txt for example, then rename all the weap.txt to like uhm w3ap.txt

ok now make a new file in the ini folder called w3ap.txt so now the Game uses w3ap.txt and hradba checks weap.txt that still exists and is normal.

but the GAMe... will use w3ap.txt that is edited like you want, and hradba checks weap.txt thats still normal

Now you almost can make everything you want undetecitd..

Thanks to a friend and me for finding out ^^
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: [TKC]MrPink on November 24, 2005, 05:50:15 pm
what editor would i use to open .dll??
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: Crossmol on November 24, 2005, 07:13:17 pm
Quote from: [TKC]MrPink
what editor would i use to open .dll??


Use a hexeditor
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: ZOldDude on November 24, 2005, 08:43:32 pm
I was asked about 6-8 weks ago to not make this public....now that it is I moved it here for those who are members first for like 2 weeks.
I will move it back into the public area about 2 weeks befor Xmas!
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: Oynky on November 26, 2005, 01:00:08 am
Btw Z, if hradba detect thisone, i know a way to make it undetectid again






























LOL!!!!
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: n00bly on November 26, 2005, 01:07:23 am
Me and cross had a hard time after doing this.. works fine not detected on VC2 retail hradba..but any changes didnt seem to work.
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: ZOldDude on November 26, 2005, 02:03:40 am
Just d/l and use this mod....then make it pass HB:

http://www.100clan.net/downloads/vc2-def.cbf

Read what this mod does:

http://www.acidice.net/
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: Crossmol on November 26, 2005, 03:57:40 am
dl'ing it, want to compare it with mine  :lol:
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: ZOldDude on November 26, 2005, 05:24:07 am
Should be very close to what Lava did in the demo,both are also beta testers and just love looking for new ways to work the puzzles.

His way is the basic wepons trainer geared to non-protected server play and ment to be more of a help to promote the game rather than detract from honest ladder play. I enjoy seeing both even if I don't compete in ladders and just play coop to avoid the text BS in game.

I was chatting with UPLINK,N2DEEP,AUS Dave and BW Dude this week....wish the people who are in control of how this game is made,tested and marketed could pull thier heads out of thiere ass's long enough to listen to them....we might see more than 11 people in the world playing a NEW GAME after a month rather then see the player count drop day by day.
It would also make cheating in pubs alot more fun.

I bet a $1 AND a donut both that TKC's EGGARODDO (spl) game sends out both more copys via torrent AND has online players than both VC1 and VC2 becuase we understand better how things work in real life.

BTW check out the VC2 100% Clan server UPLINK/ACCESSED/SNIPPER has up....the server is rented from N2DEEP so it has good ping even in the EU as it sits both on the backbone and close to one of the worlds 13 DNS servers.
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: {GSA}Aussie Dave on November 26, 2005, 10:55:46 am
(http://sfx-aus.com/e107_images/newspost_images/agu.JPG)
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: n00bly on November 26, 2005, 12:08:35 pm
:D  Haha i have seen that dude play on our American server. He is very good.. Very friendly geez who wud of thought he cheats...Whats the world coming too. Oh this hradba wont last long.
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: ZOldDude on November 26, 2005, 11:14:40 pm
What are you going on about?

What Dave is trying to show you is EVERY player getting disconected. The crappy "system" they are insisting on useing is acting up again and yesterday even less people could play.

I even got onto the 100% clans server yesterday and for the first time rather than not be able to play over "key in use"...I got a mesage that my client was banned! I have yet been able to even join my friends server!
Title: Re: Hacking game.dll
Post by: Incog on November 27, 2005, 08:23:18 pm
Quote from: KingRuben
OK. this works on uhm almost any version and file.

Open Game.dll with a editor,
now look for weap.txt for example, then rename all the weap.txt to like uhm w3ap.txt

ok now make a new file in the ini folder called w3ap.txt so now the Game uses w3ap.txt and hradba checks weap.txt that still exists and is normal.

but the GAMe... will use w3ap.txt that is edited like you want, and hradba checks weap.txt thats still normal

Now you almost can make everything you want undetecitd..

Thanks to a friend and me for finding out ^^


thanks ruben, i have thrust you and than that?

Quote
Btw Z, if hradba detect thisone, i know a way to make it undetectid again


tell me in msn plz (you know it)
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: Oynky on November 27, 2005, 11:06:38 pm
no sorry, i wont tell it to someone i dont know/wannaknow..
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: ZOldDude on November 28, 2005, 01:52:18 am
Quote from: KingRuben
no sorry, i wont tell it to someone i dont know/wannaknow..


LOL...Right on!

Anyhow things are either pvt or public not halfway.
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: {GSA}Aussie Dave on November 28, 2005, 02:00:30 am
this is today


(http://sfx-aus.com/daves/coop.JPG)

(http://sfx-aus.com/daves/ctf.JPG)
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: ZOldDude on November 28, 2005, 03:10:47 am
Dave why do you think so many people are still getting the key issue.....same people who have no problem on other days?
Also what is your high ping kick set at....VC2's netcode lets up to about 3 times the people without "lag" and some of the EU guys set their pings far to low.
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: {GSA}Aussie Dave on November 28, 2005, 03:17:36 am
ping kick is 500

i think there's a problem with the GameSpy server and also but i'm only guessing that if a server crashes and the vc2ded.exe keeps running the GameSpy server thinks you are still in the crashed server.
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: {GSA}Aussie Dave on November 28, 2005, 03:40:04 am
FullDisclosure: [Full-disclosure] Gamespy cd-key validation system: "Cd-key in use" DoS versus many games
[Full-disclosure] Gamespy cd-key validation system: "Cd-key in use" DoS versus many games

    * This message: [ Message body ] [ More options ]
    * Related messages: [ Next message ] [ Previous message ]

From: Luigi Auriemma <aluigi_at_autistici.org>
Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 19:03:40 +0000

#######################################################################

                             Luigi Auriemma

Application: Gamespy cd-key validation system
              http://www.gamespy.net
Games: The amount of games that use this system is really huge,
              a small list (maintained by me) is available here:
                http://aluigi.altervista.org/papers/gshlist.txt
              An official list of games that use the Gamespy stuff (so
              not only the cd-keys) is available here:
                http://www.gamespy.net/partners/
Versions: each game must implement the future fixed SDK with a
              patch, anyway is impossible for me to list all the
              vulnerable games versions (in this moment ALL)
Bug: Denial of Service, players with valid cd-keys cannot play
              online due to the "Cd-key in use" error message
Exploitation: remote, versus clients with valid cd-keys
Date: 04 May 2005
Author: Luigi Auriemma
              e-mail: aluigi_at_autistici.org
              web: http://aluigi.altervista.org

#######################################################################

1) Introduction
2) Bug in short
3) Bug details
4) An example of real life
5) What an attacker needs
6) The Code
7) Fix

#######################################################################

===============
1) Introduction
===============

The Gamespy cd-key validation system is a toolkit used by a HUGE number
of multiplayer games and is needed to allow the verification of the
cd-keys used by the players when they want to join an online game
server.

Some of the most famous and played games that use this toolkit are
Halo, Battlefield 1942 and Vietnam, Men of Valor, Painkiller, Star Wars
Battlefront, Star Wars Republic Commando, Tribes: Vengeance and many
others between those listed here:

  http://www.gamespy.net/partners/

#######################################################################

===============
2) Bug in short
===============

An attacker can sniff all the valid cd-key authorizations sent from his
server to the Gamespy master server when a player joins his match.
These queries do NOT contain the plain-text cd-key but only some random
text strings and the MD5 hashes needed to verify the original cd-key
and the correctness of the packet.

Then the attacker can send the same captured queries to the master
server emulating what a common server does.
This mechanism allows the real cd-key to be considered in use in the
server of the attacker so when the real owner of the cd-key tries to
play online its client is kicked from any game server he wants to join.

Note that this implementation bug does NOT allow the attackers to stole
or reuse the valid cd-keys but only to block them for all the time they
want.

#######################################################################

==============
3) Bug details
==============

The Gamespy cd-key validation system is a server-side mechanism for
verifying if the cd-keys used by the clients are valid or not.
Server-side means that all the authorization is handled by the game
server, it is the only one that contacts the master server.
The part of the client in this mechanism is limited to the passing of
its cd-key hash to the game server.

With client is meant the game client so the users/gamers, with server
is identified a game server hosted by any user while the master server
is the central server owned by Gamespy that contains the archive of
valid cd-keys and their MD5 hashes.
I think these terms are well known by anyone but I prefer to be sure.

The step-by-step for validating a cd-key through the Gamespy system is
the following:
- client joins the server
- server generates a random text string and sends it to the client
- client composes a string of 72 chars using also the string received
  from the server:
    http://aluigi.altervista.org/papers/gskey-auth.txt
- server sends to the master server its string plus the response
  received from the client
- the master server replies reporting if the client cd-key is valid or
  not (and why not)
- if the valid cd-key has been previously authorized from another
  server the master server first tries to contact this one to know if
  the player with that cd-key is still playing (\ison\). If a negative
  (\uoff\) or no reply is received the cd-key is considered free and
  the new user is authorized

The flaw is clear: what happens if the server that has authorized the
cd-key for first continues to report that the player is playing on it
forever?
The answer is simple, the real player with the valid cd-key will be no
longer able to play online because his cd-key is in use in that server.

Creating this situation is very simple, a normal game server can
capture the authorization requests it sends to the Gamespy master
server when a player joins and then it can reuse the same identical
requests forcing the real cd-keys to enter in the "Cd-key in use"
state (exist 2 ways to exploit the bug, read the section 5).

An authorization request is composed by the following parameters:

 \auth\ = identifies the type of query, authorization
 \pid\ = the Gamespy product ID of the played game:
          http://aluigi.altervista.org/papers/gspids.txt
 \ch\ = what I have called server token, it is the text string
          randomly generated by the server and sent to the client
 \resp\ = contains the MD5 hash of the client cd-key, the client token
          (another random string but generated by the client) and a
          MD5 hash used to verify the correctness of the request (so
          nobody can modify the other values)
 \ip\ = IP address of the client in decimal format
 \skey\ = a random number used to track the request and the subsequent
          reply

The pid, the ch and the resp are all the stuff that the attacker needs.

When the real player joins a server the master server receives the
authorization request, checks if the cd-key is valid and then contacts
the fake server with a query similar to the following:

  \ison\\cd\0123456789abcdef0123456789abcdef\skey\1234

And the fake server must simply reply with:

  \uon\\skey\1234

The cd-key is still in use in the fake server and the real player will
be booted quickly from the server he wants to join with the "Cd-key in
use" error message.

#######################################################################

==========================
4) An example of real life
==========================

A guy, that we will call Luigi, has just bought the game Painkiller in
a big super market of his town (in reality he likes racing games but
this is only an example).

He is very happy to have bought this game because it's cool and very
splatter and moreover because is possible to play online where this FPS
finds his natural habitat.

Luigi arrives at home, installs the game, inserts his cd-key, applies
the latest patch found on a recent game magazine and connects to
Internet, he is really anxious to frag other users.

He finds a server with an interesting name and with 8 players in it and
decides to join and plays on it for over one hour conquering some
victories and many defeats.

Now he is tired and decides to reconnect later but he has a bad
surprise: he receives a "Cd-key in use" error message everytime he
tries to join any online server.

He doesn't understand why that happens, he thinks someone has stolen
his cd-key so after many troubles, time lost, mails to the game support
and posts on many forums with no results he abandons the game and
decides to give up.

#######################################################################

=========================
5) What an attacker needs
=========================

An attacker has two ways to exploit this bug, and in both is needed to
have a public game server available on Internet.

Requirements for the first method
---------------------------------
- a game server using a modified executable that avoids the sending of
  the \disc\ command and with \uoff\ replaced by \uon\.

The result is that a player with a valid cd-key joins the attacker
server but his cd-key remains in use also when he left the match.
Modifying the executable is very simple but remember that the commands
are not stored in plain-text in the code but are easily built at
runtime (something like buff[0]='\\'; buff[1]='d'; buff[2]='i';
buff[3]='s'; buff[4]='c'; ... the pattern is similar to all the games
that use this toolkit).
For example in some minutes and with the substitution of only 3 bytes I
have modified with success the executable of Gore 1.48:

  http://aluigi.altervista.org/poc/gore148gskeyinuse.zip

Requirements for the second method
----------------------------------
- a normal game server
- GsHsniff for capturing the authorization requests
- my proof-of-concept to replicate the requests in ANY moment you want

The explanations are available in the following section.

#######################################################################

===========
6) The Code
===========

The proof-of-concept (for the second exploitation method) is composed
by two tools:

- GsHsniff
  http://aluigi.altervista.org/papers/gshsniff.zip

  a sniffer able to capture all the encoded queries sent and received
  from the master server

- Gamespy cd-key validation: "Cd-key in use" DoS
  http://aluigi.altervista.org/poc/gskeyinuse.zip

  the real proof-of-concept, it reads all the autorization requests (in
  plain-text) contained in a file and sends them to the master server.
  Then it enters in a listening mode so can report that the cd-keys of
  the players are still and ever in use.

Practical usage
---------------
Put all the authorization requests collected with GsHsniff in a text
file like keys.txt.
This is very simple to do, you need only to launch GsHsniff, run a
dedicated server of your favourite game and then join in it (the game
must use the Gamespy cd-key validation toolkit naturally).
When the request is captured close both the server and the client.

The file keys.txt must look similar to the following:

\auth\\pid\123\ch\aBcDeFg\resp\0123456789abcdef0123456789abcdef0123456789ab
cdef0123456789abcdef01234567\ip\123456\skey\1234
\auth\\pid\999\ch\253h2\resp\abcdefabcdefabcdefabcdefabcdefabcdefabcdefabcd
efabcdefabcdefabcdefabcdef
...
(one \auth\ request is enough, one for each cd-key)

Launch gskeyinuse specifying the name of the text file with the
collected requests and the local port to bind:

  gskeyinuse keys.txt 7777

Both the tools are very verbose so any detail is ever visible and
GsHsniff is useful to see in real-time what I have tried to explained
with my words (moreover using its options).

After having launched the proof-of-concept you can verify that your
cd-key is in use joining an online game server or using the tool I have
written just for this purpose:

  http://aluigi.altervista.org/papers/gskeycheck.zip

If you receive a "Cd-key in use" error means your game is vulnerable.

#######################################################################

======
7) Fix
======

Gamespy has been contacted and is working for a solution.

FYI, naturally Gamespy was aware of this problem from many years since
it was visible during the engineering of the cd-key validation system,
but this is another story...

The fix will require a new version of the SDK so the games must
implement it in their next patches.
Traduced: many games will remain vulnerable for long time and many
others forever because no longer supported.

Naturally the players with valid cd-keys can avoid the "Cd-key in use"
problem with 2 methods:

- play only on trusted servers and verify ever their IP addresses
  because an attacker can set up a server with the same name and
  details of another one

- if you think that someone is keeping your cd-key in use, wait if the
  situation returns normal within some hours and then contact Gamespy
  since they are the only to know the IP address of the attacker server

As already said many games will be never patched so keep these rules in
mind.

#######################################################################

---
Luigi Auriemma
http://aluigi.altervista.org

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Received on May 04 2005
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: ZOldDude on November 28, 2005, 07:12:24 am
I forgot all about looking at Luigi's site.....strange that a few others know of him.

Basicly ALL games that currantly use cd-keys and GameSpy can be made un-useabl.

This is not the same GameSpy explote that REMOVES a server from the browser lists untill the server is rebooted.

However I doubt this is the only issue with VC2

Z
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: {GSA}Aussie Dave on November 28, 2005, 10:45:34 am
i know all  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: ZOldDude on November 28, 2005, 12:32:05 pm
Quote from: {GSA}Aussie Dave
i know all  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:


I used to read his site along with others every few days for along time altho I have not programed for decades myself (1984) and PC's had not been around very long "back in the day". I found an intrest in them along with all things electronic.

I got into that along with 2-way radio and radar (microwave) and always was moding the hardware the same as the early PC hardware (building on perf-board with raw parts from ideas and prints...later on home made printed circut boards).

This was always nothing but a hobby to me and over the years my 4 Watt 2-way radios pumped up to 20KW in a car!...my 100 bit phone modem grew into a 1.24 Gbps up/dwn connection (around here as a house)....and rather than me looking to get girls they get on a plane and fly to see me.
Well....only one does but thats the one that counts.  :wink:

1984:

PC=64 K of ram.

Mine=128 K + 1 MB

Phone connection speed...
PC= 100-1200 b
Mine=302-9600 b

PC=One  5 1/4" floppy (not many people still used 8" floppys).
Mine= 8 X 5 1/4" floppys, a 1 MB ram-chip drive board (called D:10), a 40 MB Seagate HD on an IBM controler.(a modifide ATARI BASIC OS was used)

(thats 40 MB....not 40GB and I can buy a car from the police impound yard for the same amount of money it costs then,today!)

I could get/send and run all Com/IBM/ATARI files-programs on the same basic 64 K-ram computer...and use the airwaves via radio on top of that.
I thought it was "da shit" to send from my PC via radio an play PONG with no telephone in use and I built my own unit.

Sadly I now have a problem trying to play VC2 online and not kick my old dusty ass off for "key in use" stuff that seems to come and go when it wants.
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: n00bly on December 03, 2005, 02:16:34 pm
:)  Are all them disconections from server and not from the 2000 ppl who have downloaded it off a torrent, and using the same keys. lol
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: ZOldDude on December 03, 2005, 02:55:39 pm
Quote from: n00bly
:)  Are all them disconections from server and not from the 2000 ppl who have downloaded it off a torrent, and using the same keys. lol


Well if they are then only a maximum of 30 some people in the whole world OWN this game and play online at the high time of day.

VC2 is a total failure and in part due to assholes like Andrew K. who could not even get his real name listed as a tester. Then again his *AUS* clan is defunct and nobody wants to play his eX clan.

Z

PS: The day it went on sale I counted over 18,000 on just 2 sites and people downloading it and they all siad the game sux and AS YOU CAN TELL don't bother to try to play online...and anyone can make a valid online cd-key for the GameSpy Master Server no mater what game.
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: n00bly on December 03, 2005, 02:58:41 pm
:shock:  Maybe if them 2000 fools realized tkc is not just to fear lol they would find they could make there own unique keys using info posted in here lol.


Edited: Reworded
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: ZOldDude on December 03, 2005, 03:21:41 pm
Quote from: n00bly
:shock:  Maybe if them 2000 fools realized tkc is not just to fear lol they would find they can get there unique keys here lol.


What the hell are you on about?

You will NEVER find "keys" here on TKC...and tho this is not a "hacker site" so to speak,we do post information as general intrest.

As part of the "general interest" I am trying to get some "public" info into the TKC d/l section on how to make and check GameSpy cd-keys along with info on a 6 year old bug on how to deleat a game server from the GS/game browser listing.

This is basicly PUBLIC info altho it is not talked about much and yet GameSpy was told about it appox 6 years ago and never saw fit to fix the issue(s).

Z
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: Oynky on December 12, 2005, 12:20:01 am
well, by some simple info you can read here, you have a ''uniqe''
Title: Re: Hacking game.dll
Post by: element on February 23, 2006, 04:01:57 pm
Quote from: KingRuben
OK. this works on uhm almost any version and file.

Open Game.dll with a editor,
now look for weap.txt for example, then rename all the weap.txt to like uhm w3ap.txt

ok now make a new file in the ini folder called w3ap.txt so now the Game uses w3ap.txt and hradba checks weap.txt that still exists and is normal.

but the GAMe... will use w3ap.txt that is edited like you want, and hradba checks weap.txt thats still normal

Now you almost can make everything you want undetecitd..

Thanks to a friend and me for finding out ^^
i dont see in vc any "weap.txt"
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: n00bly on February 23, 2006, 07:48:13 pm
:D  Oh there there actually two if u use a debbugger weap.txt and weap2.txt the second id say is F/Alpha. But they are there.
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: Oynky on February 24, 2006, 04:33:24 pm
Omg noobly i totaly forgot that it had a other name in 160, And so now im gonna try find it again.
With that misterious debug program where i aqtually dont get a fuck off anyways :roll:
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: n00bly on February 24, 2006, 08:54:41 pm
:D  Yeah well that othername...hmm Well we wrong about that have a different 'Name' if u extract 1.41 its the same C77 crap. And its still reffered to as the weap.txt so....

Edit* after looking through older cbf files it actually starts in 1.01 so it is still reffered to as weap.txt. How i dont know. I actually mean in the patch for 1.01 the weap.txt is still the same name C77 crap.
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: Oynky on February 24, 2006, 09:33:20 pm
yeah i see that same stuff in other game.dlls
ini_weap.txt bla bla

but it was in disambeled mode, so how do i change it normal. i was trying and stuff for a haf hour bud coudnt do anything,
i can post a screen if its allowed..
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: n00bly on February 24, 2006, 11:30:08 pm
:?  Do it in Olly
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: Taxman on March 24, 2006, 12:56:19 am
Best way to hack the game.dll is to use PE Explorer program.

Do a search for the values u found in the weapon.txt like PL_HP etc and change them.

I made afew mods using this method, If some1 wants a sample u can PM me or Z (Dev section only).

So First we open up PE Explorer and point it to the game.dll -
(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1328/step14wk.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Now we want to use the dissembler -
(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3852/step22tc.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

We click START (There are some options that u can change depending on what your hacking needs are)
(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8590/step31am.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Now we search for what we wanna change:
(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7095/step45hi.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Like so - Once u find something -double click the address line for the full machine code line.
(http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/9027/step51is.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: Taxman on March 24, 2006, 01:05:26 am
Before people ask "How do i change" command code i suggest they read the tutor with the program.
Remeber to double click on the code line to get a better look at the values.
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5837/this0iq.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

From what i see no1 wants to learn anything - They just want working hacks - Its pritty sad, So i wont be doing a more indepth tutor - Its best u do the trial & error method to get what u want.
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: Oynky on July 05, 2006, 11:43:36 pm
1. Hello all, im 'new :b
2. Tax, dont think im not trying <.<
Ill look at it again ( also installing vc again atm )
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: Rav3n on July 05, 2006, 11:58:28 pm
Hi TAX  your back?????     I use PE explorer and it works wonders i was having trouble changing some lines but i think i got it now trouble is machine code is awkaward and trying to understand it is a pain in the arse

If we can inject code into a code cave we can change actual events in the game maybe the M79 will work this way im still elarning it though and it puzzles me

Tax can we talk on MSN????
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: Taxman on July 06, 2006, 03:25:24 am
yeah np.
Title: Hacking game.dll
Post by: Oynky on July 06, 2006, 02:34:23 pm
Hm, this topic aint in dev anymore, after i posted? 0_o