TKC-Community

Hacking and Art => Armed Assault 3 => Operation Flashpoint => Topic started by: Marshal_Law on June 22, 2005, 06:20:29 pm

Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: Marshal_Law on June 22, 2005, 06:20:29 pm
I had to post this here because you locked my other topic.

Copyrighted material? Whats the difference between you using BIS/Codemasters copyrighted material and me sending a few files (which unless you actually sent off for a copyright license is not copyrighted) to BIS?

Isnt it called protecting their own interests? Considering that you are trying to damage their products (and have done by turning many people away from this game) there is no law against me sending the files to the company whos material you are trying to hack.

You obviously know nothing about copyright laws.

Marshal Law
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: [TKC]Anothercheater on June 22, 2005, 06:56:52 pm
blah blah blah theres nothing what you can do against any cheats.
even for armed assault will be cheats.
I tell you, for nearly every game exist cheats and/or bugs even for WoW.
Do you really think BIS does do anything against the cheats that you send them? are you really that stupid?
So much sad dudes crying around here these days...you guys are just sad go play tennis.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: [TKC]Hubertus on June 22, 2005, 06:58:26 pm
We never violated any copyright law. I never included any BIS files into my cheatpacks. Theres always a patcher in the pack, not the BIS executable.
My cheatpack is an addon, nothing else. You cant just send it to everyone because you dont own the copyrights for the files. The files are stolen and not meant for public release.
I also cant send VBS1 to everyone I want. I could also call it "protecting my interests". My interests are that everyone is able to play VBS1, so I am allowed to redistribute it as much as I want? I dont think so. Of course thats just an example, I dont have VBS1 and I wouldnt send it to anyone if I would have it.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: Marshal_Law on June 22, 2005, 09:29:18 pm
So show me where these files in the readme have a copyright notice? Because they dont.

Also before you want to start preaching what you can and cannot do with peoples property perhaps you should first read the License Agreement that comes with the game:

Quote
You shall not:

Reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, decompile, disassemble, or create derivative works of the Program, in whole or part.


and this:

Quote
Injunction:
Because Codemasters would be irreparably damaged if the terms of this agreement were not specifically enforced, you agree that Codemasters shall be entitled, without bond, other security or proof of damages, to appropriate equitable remedies with respect to breaches of this Agreement, in addition to such other remedies as Codemasters may otherwise have under applicable laws.


In otherwords, by loading up the game and clicking on the agreement upon installation, you agreed that Codemasters may pursue remedies if a person breaches the contract of agreement. In the first case above, you have 'used derivative works' to code your cheat files to alter the original game code which was shipped and to give yourself an unfair advantage over players who use the game that was originally shipped. Of course BIS and Codemasters welcome MOD files such as new units and soldiers or objects - they do not however encourage coders to make the type of cheats that you guys work on and this is what they mean by 'derivative works'.

So, far from you worrying about me breaking your copywrite agreement (which I havent even seen or signed) your trying to preach the wrongs of me using your files when youve done exactly the same with OFP.


Now let me ask a question - if the files were not meant for public release why did you make them? and why did you obviously at some point in time upload them onto the internet for other people to access if you are using solely for your own use?

I didnt post anything to BIS anyway - I just gave them the URL link - so if anyone has given your cheatfiles to BIS its one of your own who was stupid enough to host them on their site.

There are no cheats for WoW, they work all the time to prevent them and the sourcecode is on their own servers. Just by looking at your section on WoW in these forums prove that you havent cracked it yet - and lets raise a glass to that - hurrah!!!  :lol:

Of course BIS will do something about your cheat files - whats the point of them making AA if you can simply boot up all the cheats that haunt OFP already.

My God, you guys are even thicker than I could even credit you with.

Marshal Law
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: M. O. on June 22, 2005, 11:36:30 pm
Excerpt from our DISCLAIMER (http://www.tkc-community.net/nav/disclaimer.html) (it's as legal as the agreement on the CD):

"By using www.tkc-community.net and/or any of the above sites (Reffered to as the TKC-Community) you are in agreement to these Terms and Conditions. If you do not agree to these Terms and Conditions, do not use this site in any way, shape, or form."

"Restrictions On Use of Materials: This website is copyright protected. All images, files and content are only for you to use for personal or non-commercial home use only.
All trademarks and logos are owned by the TKC-Community or its licensors, they are full copyright protected and may not be misused in any way."

Which means: the cheatpacks are copyrighted even if there's no notice anywhere. In this case the copyright holder is Hubertus.

"I, under penalties of perjury solemnly declare and affirm the following:

1. I am not visiting this site to steal material (including Information, Snapshots and Source-Codes) to use against the Webmaster, Site Operator or Host or any person in any conceivable manner.
2. I will not modify any material for personal use, unless I have permission by the creator or copyright holder.
3. I am not seeking out evidence which may serve as a medium for any charge of violating federal, state or local laws.
4. Everything that I download will be and is used for educational purposes only.
5. By entering The TKC-Community sites I declare the above. "
 
You've broken against the points 1, 3, 4, 5. As a result you get banned.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: [TKC]Anothercheater on June 22, 2005, 11:36:58 pm
www.gamecopyworld.com as exmaple, big site much games all executables are modified, old site :D thats very similar to that what happens here now fuck off you little sad lost soul of ofp.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: [TKC]Hubertus on June 23, 2005, 12:04:28 am
I dont care what the license agreement says - I never bought the game and I never played the game, so I never agreed to the license agreement  :wink:  :wink:
And the files dont need a copyright notice. They are copyrighted as soon as I create them. If you download a mp3 file, there is also no copyright notice, but the file is copyrighted.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: [TKC]Anothercheater on June 23, 2005, 12:46:33 am
I think you automatically agree to the license agreement by installing/executing the software product, but anyways there are to much other sites that do similiar things to that what we do. I dont see any problems  as long as we dont release any software which comes with the game and/or is copyrighted by a commercial business or patents.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: [TKC]thejoker on June 23, 2005, 01:14:30 am
Here is what i dont understand....Why do you need to buy it and THEN agree, because what if someone actually reads those things and doesnt agree so they try to take it back but cant. Its pointless.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: joeb1 on June 23, 2005, 02:29:21 am
Marshal_Law

TKC hasn't violated ANY copyright laws because they have not altered the basic game code

addons are supported by the game, there are thousands of user made addons for the game

and thats all TKC did...... and good luck wasting your time mailing BIS, because this 5 year old game is hardly worth their time and effort to support anymore, im surprised they released the 1.96 patch at all! but i can tell you that they will never release an anti cheat for this game, its too much time and effort for an almost obsolete game.

look at Medal of Honor (MoHAA), EA never bothered releasing an anti cheat for that game, and its full of cheaters.  But COD did have punkbuster, and I think OFP 2 will have an anti cheat.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: [TKC]Hubertus on June 23, 2005, 02:44:36 am
Quote
this 5 year old game

OFP 1.0 was released exactly 4 years ago, 22nd June 2001  :wink:
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: [TKC]thejoker on June 23, 2005, 03:15:27 am
Its graphics are pretty poor for 2001. What joeb sais is correct (i think) about it just being addons.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: ZOldDude on June 23, 2005, 03:29:26 am
Quote from: anothercheater
I think you automatically agree to the license agreement by installing/executing the software product,.......


I don't know what the laws are in other countrys but any EULA that is on the disk or printed INSIDE of the box that you did not see or agree to BEFOR you BOUGHT it has been ruled to NOT be a CONTRACT in the USA.

Funny as I think the law regarding EULA started here!

In my part of the USA we have a State law that says a contract other than "emergancy" may be voided by either party with notice withen 72 hours.
Print a EULA on the outside of a box and make people pen thier name to it and they will only copy the disks and then return that software and end said contract.
Title: Re: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: ZOldDude on June 23, 2005, 03:49:22 am
Quote from: Marshal_Law
I had to post this here because you locked my other topic.

Copyrighted material? .............there is no law against me sending the files to the company whos material you are trying to hack.

You obviously know nothing about copyright laws.


If you read this with another account please make note:

1) I was not the one who locked that thread...the section Mod did so.

1a) Yes copyrighted.

2) This would hold true if TKC placed those files in our public download section. The fact that they were stolen from a privet section and you knew about it is founded in both the laws of this country (server location),international law and laws of your own country.
The fact that it was a crime that involed crossing state/international lines is frowned apon both here in the US and in the UK.

3) It seems that it is you who knows little of the law.

Please consult those who make a living dealing with the law rather than trusting your future apon heresay or old wifes tales.
Please read the first locked thread as I added to it and then re-locked it.

Z
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: ABC on June 23, 2005, 10:45:34 am
What none of you reallize is that for a contact to stand in a court of law, it must be signed by one or both of the parties in question. Since no contract was signed there is no agreement, thous both contracts are none existant. So, Marshal Law can post anything he wants, and TKC can modify the game. But, to modify the game you must have a WRITTEN ARGEEMENT with BIS, so any addon maker could be sued. TKC and addonmakers are using software that is not theirs so both could be sued for damage to property not theirs. BUT if you have written agreement with BIS, THAT IS SIGNED by both parties,  to modify the game then you can do what you want with the game, but since the party in question, TKC, did not have any agreement, they could be sued or punished.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: [TKC]Anothercheater on June 23, 2005, 10:56:09 am
like all those sides who who have nocd cracks? bla blah blah
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: joeb1 on June 23, 2005, 11:00:42 am
Quote
What none of you reallize is that for a contact to stand in a court of law, it must be signed by one or both of the parties in question.


thats untrue because none of the addon makers for operation flashpoint signed any contracts, the makers of OFP released tools to make addons themselves, and even have sections on the forums supporting user made addons

a user made addon is the intellectual property of the person who made it, simple as that

even cheats are just addons, they arent using the game code to build a new game, the cheats can be removed and the game is back to its original state

also there is no legal precedent for suing cheat makers, there is no law anywhere in the world against making online cheats.

do you think bis is going to sue someone over a 4 year old game when EA and other companies havent done so to people making cheats for their online games?  its not going to happen.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: [TKC]Anothercheater on June 23, 2005, 11:18:45 am
absulutly, i think this is a good completion and topic should be locked.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: Louden on June 23, 2005, 03:31:44 pm
This is so stupid, like anyone here is actually going to get sued. Wake up guys.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: Malboeuf on June 23, 2005, 09:45:22 pm
Quote from: joeb1
Quote
What none of you reallize is that for a contact to stand in a court of law, it must be signed by one or both of the parties in question.




a user made addon is the intellectual property of the person who made it, simple as that




nope, you waived any rights by CMs copy laws, mabey you should go read them
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: [TKC]Anothercheater on June 23, 2005, 11:19:42 pm
what are you aiming at? that we stop making (and publishing) cheats?
do u really think u can stop it that way?  this are just boring discussions nothing happens so boring. and btw codemasters dont care about ofp, if they would then they would have released allready a patch or the 2nd part of ofp (ofp2).
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: Marshal2 on June 24, 2005, 12:11:30 am
Sorry guys but just because you dont agree with what I did does not mean that you have to ban me. It didnt stop me coming back anyway did it.

Far from you kidding yourself that BIS wont be doing anything about these cheat files - Placebo has already contacted me saying that he will forward the information onto the game programmers and I see that the site which I saw the cheat files on has had its account suspended - so contrary to your belief that BIS/Codemasters dont worry about cheat files - theyre actions seem to prove otherwise.

What you have to remember is that you are working with BIS's code which is theyre property. As soon as you start writing programs for a game then you obviously have to know what the program can and cannot do and you simply cant do that by just playing the game.

It seems to me that you dont like your own medicine... Youve been the reason why the OFP community is in the state that it is in now - whether you want to admit the fact or not. Many players (including myself) would still be playing OFP if cheat files had not spoilt the game.

It doesnt matter how old the game is, its still a good game which has been spoiled by a few kids who thought they would have a laugh at the expense of the entire community.

Blackden is correct in stating that BIS has had access to all your forums here for a long time - so whatever youve said in the private area is already common knowledge to BIS.

And as far as copyright agreements go - I didnt get the cheatfiles from this site - so I have not breached any disclaimer that I have to agree with to visit this site.

Now are we going to have an adult discussion about this or are you going to ban me again because you dont like me giving you a bit of your own medicine? And remember that even if you do ban me I can still get back in.  :lol:

Marshal Law
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: ZOldDude on June 24, 2005, 12:27:32 am
Quote from: Marshal2
And remember that even if you do ban me I can still get back in.


A section Mod banned you not the sysop or myself....that is why you have a 2nd chance.

I hate banning people.

I support your right of speech.

The problem is that when people spread the files fron the Dev section you end up with not just 5-6 people using them but the whole field of players.

This damage is cuased by those who violate the disclaimer on the main site page and want to play SuperSpy and or just be thiefs.

If you gung-ho types were smart you would wait untill they finnished the testing and TKC puts the files into out public download area.

Those who cheat would have thier fun and those that want to make a anti-cheat could do thier job......everyone would be happy......people would not have thier pages removed from the web and suffer jail time over it.

Mostly I would not have to get involved.

Enjoy your stay and speak freely.

Z
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: [TKC]Hubertus on June 24, 2005, 12:39:44 am
Quote
Far from you kidding yourself that BIS wont be doing anything about these cheat files - Placebo has already contacted me saying that he will forward the information onto the game programmers and I see that the site which I saw the cheat files on has had its account suspended - so contrary to your belief that BIS/Codemasters dont worry about cheat files - theyre actions seem to prove otherwise.


I contacted the webmaster of www.funpic.de at 00:30, 6 hours later the site went down. They took it down because it violated their hosting rules, the rules say that you are not allowed to use the webspace to provide downloads, you have to create a page aswell.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: GameBro on June 24, 2005, 12:53:33 am
omg hubertus you haxor :shock:

 :D  :D  :D
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: Marshal2 on June 24, 2005, 01:13:59 am
How do you know which webpage I was referring to?
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: ZOldDude on June 24, 2005, 01:29:27 am
Quote from: [TKC]Advanced_Soldier
omg hubertus you haxor :shock:

 :D  :D  :D

Yeng be da man!
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: [TKC]Hubertus on June 24, 2005, 02:38:48 am
Quote from: Marshal2
How do you know which webpage I was referring to?


I only know one site that was hosting the stolen files, and now its down, so I guess you were also talking about dkgadger.funpic.de.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: [TKC]Anothercheater on June 24, 2005, 02:10:37 pm
Quote from: Marshal2
Sorry guys but just because you dont agree with what I did does not mean that you have to ban me. It didnt stop me coming back anyway did it.

Far from you kidding yourself that BIS wont be doing anything about these cheat files - Placebo has already contacted me saying that he will forward the information onto the game programmers and I see that the site which I saw the cheat files on has had its account suspended - so contrary to your belief that BIS/Codemasters dont worry about cheat files - theyre actions seem to prove otherwise.

What you have to remember is that you are working with BIS's code which is theyre property. As soon as you start writing programs for a game then you obviously have to know what the program can and cannot do and you simply cant do that by just playing the game.

It seems to me that you dont like your own medicine... Youve been the reason why the OFP community is in the state that it is in now - whether you want to admit the fact or not. Many players (including myself) would still be playing OFP if cheat files had not spoilt the game.

It doesnt matter how old the game is, its still a good game which has been spoiled by a few kids who thought they would have a laugh at the expense of the entire community.

Blackden is correct in stating that BIS has had access to all your forums here for a long time - so whatever youve said in the private area is already common knowledge to BIS.

And as far as copyright agreements go - I didnt get the cheatfiles from this site - so I have not breached any disclaimer that I have to agree with to visit this site.

Now are we going to have an adult discussion about this or are you going to ban me again because you dont like me giving you a bit of your own medicine? And remember that even if you do ban me I can still get back in.  :lol:

Marshal Law


Why is nothing happened then yet? Like the other dudes on so many other cheat sites that try to scare them all the time, blah blah blah, why is this site not down then? Stop playing wanna-be-advocator there is nothing what this site can stop atm - thats why its allready 2 years old. I dont understand why you guys put so much effort (forum-speeches) into a dead game.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: BLACKDEN on June 24, 2005, 02:14:44 pm
And me i dont understand why anothercheater still so much forum-power-effort spamming this forum for say nothing. Because he is nothing ?

We discuss with mature guys, so please anothercheater, return to the garden for see if we are not there, thx :D
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: [TKC]Anothercheater on June 24, 2005, 02:22:41 pm
Because there is no reason to try a conversation about opinions how someone likes to play a game. Everyone can do that what he want and ifsomeone doesnt like it, then he doesnt need to play it its so simpel - a discussion is absulutly unnecessary.
Title: For Yeng Hubertus (BEM Scooter)
Post by: BLACKDEN on June 24, 2005, 03:30:44 pm
If you dont want discuss, stay out, its simple no ???