TKC-Community

General Public Section => Off Topic => Topic started by: Nane_Nena on June 21, 2005, 12:42:40 pm

Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 21, 2005, 12:42:40 pm
Where shall I start...

When I first heard about this 'community', I just needed to take a look.
So I did!

Guess what, I am really roling over the floor laughing here! You guys for real?

You want to cheat... fine... you want to teamkill... fine... But thinking that you have the right to do that on another server than your own, you are totally wrong.
You don't own that server, so you don't say what can and cannot be done. Teamkilling and cheating on someone else's server is like not obeying the rules in somebodies house! Why? You think running a server is cheap? Doesn't cost money? Isn't much/hard work for a lot of people to build up such things? And you guys just think that you can just walk in, do whatever you like, start teamkilling, cheating, circumvating bans?
And you even believe that!? So it's also no problem if I come in your home, when you are not there, screw your dog, watch some television go take a bath, eat your kitchen empty and then leave again?
You think that 'cause this is internet' there is a real difference?

Really I found many many numb communities around the net, aswell as in real life, but this one really hits the sweetspot.

25 year olds, mixed up with 14 year olds and all the iq/eq of an ape. What a dissapointment!

The fact that you guys 'believe' in this stuff and promote it even makes you worse than monkeys. What a responsibilities!


In other words, piss off, start up your own server with your TKC-'friends' and start cheating and teamkilling eachother, that's what you guys want to do right? Then fire up your own server.


Don't think I am afraid or impressed, I am not at all and I got all the needed server utils etc. to keep your asses out and keeping the work on your asses as a minimal.

Just needed to post this from a moral point of view. Find something in your life worth to do, this is really something that kids of 12-14 do, and even then it's unacceptable.

[edit]
ps... your philosophy is full of contradictions, as stated by others, but I had to point this out: I read about not using this stuff on public/open servers where fair players play and such... well, why do you help people get unbanned then, you think they got banned because of fairplay? Anyway...you guys try to cover yourselves in on the one hand and on the other hand you support it..Hypocritism, anyone?
[/edit]
Title: Amazing!
Post by: M. O. on June 21, 2005, 03:31:04 pm
Quote
You don't own that server, so you don't say what can and cannot be done. Teamkilling and cheating on someone else's server is like not obeying the rules in somebodies house! Why? You think running a server is cheap? Doesn't cost money? Isn't much/hard work for a lot of people to build up such things? And you guys just think that you can just walk in, do whatever you like, start teamkilling, cheating, circumvating bans?
And you even believe that!? So it's also no problem if I come in your home, when you are not there, screw your dog, watch some television go take a bath, eat your kitchen empty and then leave again?
You think that 'cause this is internet' there is a real difference?


Haha, what a load of bs. "Teamkilling and cheating on someone else's server is like not obeying the rules in somebodies house!", yeah sure, and killing people on someone else's server is like killing people in somebodies house!? You can't compare real life with virtual life. Of course we can do what we want if it's possible and fun in the virtual world. There is no worldwide internet law, there is no anticheat police. As long as nothing is damaged and nobody gets hurt we can do what we want. Games are supposed to be fun. You can't decide whether people should shoot you or not because your admin, it's not your game.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 21, 2005, 03:57:50 pm
Quote from: Mullah Omar
Quote
You don't own that server, so you don't say what can and cannot be done. Teamkilling and cheating on someone else's server is like not obeying the rules in somebodies house! Why? You think running a server is cheap? Doesn't cost money? Isn't much/hard work for a lot of people to build up such things? And you guys just think that you can just walk in, do whatever you like, start teamkilling, cheating, circumvating bans?
And you even believe that!? So it's also no problem if I come in your home, when you are not there, screw your dog, watch some television go take a bath, eat your kitchen empty and then leave again?
You think that 'cause this is internet' there is a real difference?


Haha, what a load of bs. "Teamkilling and cheating on someone else's server is like not obeying the rules in somebodies house!", yeah sure, and killing people on someone else's server is like killing people in somebodies house!? You can't compare real life with virtual life. Of course we can do what we want if it's possible and fun in the virtual world. There is no worldwide internet law, there is no anticheat police. As long as nothing is damaged and nobody gets hurt we can do what we want. Games are supposed to be fun. You can't decide whether people should shoot you or not because your admin, it's not your game.


Lol, as a site admin/owner I whould have expected a somewhat more insightfull answer.

All is just to make an example, ofcoarse its not 100% comparable, but still you have to honour the guy or group that hosts the server, just like in real life. Every site, every server, and so on, you have to obey the owners/makers/admins. Simple as that, it's their SERVER, their MONEY and their TIME and WORK. First off you need to have respect for such a thing, even if you don't have that (left alone the fact that there is something wrong with you if so), you should respect the rules of the server. That is the whole point, and no matter what you say to make it look/sound good, still it isn't correct to say: We can do whatever we like on any server we like. That is just total bullshit...
To take an example of your 'there is no internet police/cheat police' and so on... here we go again: So if there is no police in the reallife, or no police 'around' or no law for it, you may murder, steal, abuse etc. anybody and anything? Get real.

Real life and 'virtual life' is connected to eachother, you may find that untrue, but then again, you are not very insightfull. Why? There are still people behind the other end of the pc's, it are still people whom you play with/against, and it are still people that bought a server, rented server-room, paying the bills and last but not least making things possible by working hard for it.

You can not deny that, and thus real life and virtual world are still connected with eachother. Maybe you are not in the same room, the same house, the same street, town or country, it doesn't matter, you are still humans together in one way or the other.

Now please come with some insightfull, thoughtoff discussion points, and points that make you guys philosophy a valid one. Cause all you can do until now is defend something with unconstructive bs. with no facts at all but just personal preferences, which mainly consist out of: we don't care, we do what we want.

Well, grow up, stop being childish and stop turning around the fact that all this: we do what we want, there is no internet-police or law against what we do on other peoples servers, and thus we will continue. .. . = B S and just immature "whatever" bullshit.

[another ps, oh yes]
You read the replies of your 'members' who dare to take the word 'we' (as in: you guys as a community) in their mouth and spilling childish stuff like we do what we want, we don't care, if we don't get handled nicely (which is just an personal view though), we will come to your server and mess you up, your game up, just for our personal pleasure and such.

I mean come on, in what world are you guys living in? Earth 1400's ?? 9 year old kids style of life and 'kicking against the society'?

I can not find any more words than just simply: c h i l d i sh
Be proud of it!
[/another ps, oh yes]
Title: Amazing!
Post by: GameBro on June 21, 2005, 04:47:37 pm
yeah I think you need a Doctor. This is a Game you sick bastard not your World, or was you born in a Microwave? you and your IQ, some People are smarter then your Father or Mother, you maybe think your special or what?, this is WWW if your IQ allows you to understand what that means, if your soooo snart then do some Anticheats for your Game, or better go back to your Microwave you Genius.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 21, 2005, 04:53:56 pm
Quote from: [TKC]Advanced_Soldier
yeah I think you need a Doctor. This is a Game you sick bastard not your World, or was you born in a Microwave? you and your IQ, some People are smarter then your Father or Mother, you maybe think your special or what?, this is WWW if your IQ allows you to understand what that means, if your soooo snart then do some Anticheats for your Game, or better go back to your Microwave you Genius.


This is what I mean, unconstructive BS. I am here to discuss your philosophy with constructive points, I can't really say that you guys do the same. It shows me and hopefully others that there is no heroism in your philosophy and that it's pure a matter of selfishnish and 'ownage' type of stuff.

The fact in the other topic, about other people 'owning' me, you think we play ctf/tdm/dm? you think we play coop for kills and who is the best? Listen up, my view on all this is already that it is very childish, but I leave those people in their worthyness. I guess they don't know better, but this cheating/teamkilling on servers which go for teamwork, teamspirit COOP and have fun in that is totally unnecairy and totally bullshit. Yes, we play coop, as a friend/community thing, not in a clan with 'he owned this guy' and she owned that guy, whatever, totally out of the picture of how we play our games. The fact remains is that you guys have no right whatsoever to do whatever you like on my server aswell as others-servers, unlike you guys think.

You can make it a forum war or you can just be a man and start with constructive and valid points which make your philosophy valid. The only thing that I read in here is: we may do whatever we like. Well, if you use that to back up your philosophy, well then you guys are really nothing more than air to me.

Come on, give me some constructive feedback. If you can?

Plus the thing that bothers me most, actually, is the fact that even though the philosophy is just all about selfishness and immature, you guys think you earn credits by spilling your names in the games you fuck up, making tools for doing so and you think you earn credit and respect by this kind of things.. Well, let me tell you one thing, the only place where you guys gain respect is from yourselves and the rest of this childish community with the same view as you do. All the rest of the world will more hate you than respect you. You think you guys are right and the rest of the world are just stupid? Wake up, become an grownup man and get real.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: ThisIsFun on June 21, 2005, 05:07:40 pm
"We can do whatever we like on any server we like"

He didn't say that. He mentioned "As long as nothing is damaged and nobody gets hurt we can do what we want."

That statement contains ethics, and shows that he *does* consider the whole 'there is somebody behind the box' argument you make... And there are some people out there who wouldn't even adhere to that I admit.. but that's life. Just like there are killers/rapists In real life.


So, occasionally someone comes in and starts cheating in some fashion or another, rejoins after a banning.. How is this effecting you or the server-owner in real life?
The server-owner pay's money towards the server? Paid for the game?
Then using a form of your real-life-comparison style; isn't this like buying a car without seatbelts? or having prisons without walls?
If anything, you should be bitching and taking your argument to the game-makers. But they don't care. You keep questioning our morals, but ignore the real fault because they won't listen to you?
If you don't want cheaters, it's like not having crash-test-dummies man =P (I like this real life comparison stuff, it's easy to make a bad comparison yet still sound reasonable)
Looking at it from a view-point I don't embrace, We're the crash test dummies, letting game creators know their products suck and need improving? *shrugs*
"25 year olds, mixed up with 14 year olds and all the iq/eq of an ape. "
Look at the bright side, if all the cheaters in our community do fit into this category you lump us into, this must make the game dev's have roughly the same IQ as that of a shrew.
And surely if they manage to improve their games based upon previous flaws pointed out to them by you, the consumer, thanks to "us" the cheating community, then us having the 'collective IQ of an ape' should neeever be able to cheat again. Don't worry, your final solution is coming along nicely in the long run.

It may annoy you, okay....... ...... Nothing in real life annoys you? The way the government is doing things? The fact that some rich guy who should be sentenced to jail-time got off?
For example, I get annoyed because I think nobody should *have* to work to survive, or have to fight in a war if you're drafted.
But it's sadly something some have to live with.
You should know that as the saying goes, Life's a b.... and then you die. Because it's true.
The fact is, not everybody will agree on everything, so no matter what, you're not always gonna get what you want, and because of this, be annoyed about it.. You're annoyed about cheaters because they disagree with your personal viewpoint/standards/morals/beliefs

Online, cheating, cheaters get a satisfaction out of the game.. What the game is really intended for. (well, besides making an enormous profit for the developers)
We're getting the same thing as you, in a different way.
By being anti-cheater you're doing the same thing we apparently do to you, to us. Preventing us getting the satisfaction from the game the way we play it.
But, in the end, until you've stopped us, "We're better(tm)" (Or at least those that make the cheats are =P (I'm one of the not-so-better ones, but working towards the other end of the spectrum)).

If we have the collective IQ of an ape, do something about this Planet of the Apes situation you're in, mr smarty pants.

BAM! Now you have the right to call me childish.

 End of flaw-ridden, incoherent response..
Title: Amazing!
Post by: [TKC]Anothercheater on June 21, 2005, 05:10:01 pm
Quote from: Nane_Nena
This is what I mean, unconstructive BS. I am here to discuss your philosophy with constructive points, I can't really say that you guys do the same. It shows me and hopefully others that there is no heroism in your philosophy and that it's pure a matter of selfishnish and 'ownage' type of stuff.

The fact in the other topic, about other people 'owning' me, you think we play ctf/tdm/dm? you think we play coop for kills and who is the best? Listen up, my view on all this is already that it is very childish, but I leave those people in their worthyness. I guess they don't know better, but this cheating/teamkilling on servers which go for teamwork, teamspirit COOP and have fun in that is totally unnecairy and totally bullshit. Yes, we play coop, as a friend/community thing, not in a clan with 'he owned this guy' and she owned that guy, whatever, totally out of the picture of how we play our games. The fact remains is that you guys have no right whatsoever to do whatever you like on my server aswell as others-servers, unlike you guys think.

You can make it a forum war or you can just be a man and start with constructive and valid points which make your philosophy valid. The only thing that I read in here is: we may do whatever we like. Well, if you use that to back up your philosophy, well then you guys are really nothing more than air to me.

Come on, give me some constructive feedback. If you can?

Plus the thing that bothers me most, actually, is the fact that even though the philosophy is just all about selfishness and immature, you guys think you earn credits by spilling your names in the games you fuck up, making tools for doing so and you think you earn credit and respect by this kind of things.. Well, let me tell you one thing, the only place where you guys gain respect is from yourselves and the rest of this childish community with the same view as you do. All the rest of the world will more hate you than respect you. You think you guys are right and the rest of the world are just stupid? Wake up, become an grownup man and get real.


1. We dont want to change what we allready do.
2. Cheating in coops is even funnier :o
3. We dont expect or want any credit for that what we do - we want fun!

ps. only thing that i want to accept is that we r maybe like little kids playing this game in the way we like it, what not means that we r stupid or retarded ... we r maybe "old",  but even a old daddy wants to have fun sometimes (as example).
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 21, 2005, 05:20:21 pm
Quote from: ThisIsFun
"We can do whatever we like on any server we like"

BAM! Now you have the right to call me childish.

 End of flaw-ridden, incoherent response..


This is getting somewhere, still somewhat crazy written, but here come points to discuss from.

First of all I was not only talking about him, but about the whole community about posts like: we dont care we do what we want, ever, never, whatever.

Second, if you guys are so good making cheats and thus actually finding exploitable bugs, that doesn't mean you have to fuck up other's games with it, nor make it public so sick twisted little minds can get hold of it. You should report it to the game developers, and if they dont do anything with it...well too bad for you then and maybe 'us'... but don't bother other people with it. There are a lot of unmanaged servers around there, maybe you dont notice the damage that you do up there...altough there will leave a lot of guys which played with eachother, after a while, because of so many cheaters and not fun to play there anymore.
Still on the more managed servers with a vast community/members, the inpact is bigger and  either way in both it's unwanted to have 'you' guys around. Like ourselves, we play coop, serious, as a team, taking it one inch by inch, being sometimes for over an hour on a map to not get killed ( teamrespawn ) and getting the whole team through it, alive, so with teamspirit and to make it as real as possible, and that gives the kick.

As soon as one of you guys joins while there are 3 gooks left, the team has lost just 1 man, and are almost at the end of their 'long jerney', and the joining guy pops a nade in between everyone and leaves, gets banned, comes back and so on, yes you are messing up other people's games and fun. And yes, you are not welcome then. Simple as that, it's my server, its my house, I make the rules and not the other way around. This sounds more harsh than it is, but word by word its the pure truth.

I came here on the forums because I needed to post my feelings about all this cheating, teamkilling, rejoining, not following rules kinda stuff and you guys name: TCK-community.net name popped up a while back, so yes, I come complain here.

Fine you want to be heroic in making games better, by finding cheats and making them seen by the developers.. but leave peoples servers for that alone or find other means and ways... Furthermore, you think that developing games nowadays is easy, everyone has enough money, they have all budgets like EA games and others, and so on and so on, so they can make perfect games and work out bugs for over years and years afterewards.. get real, everything in life costs money, a lot is done for fun, but still people need to get breakfast and other food on their table, so they have to work on different things too, and so on... Think about that one.

[qoute="whatever"]
1. We dont want to change what we allready do.
2. Cheating in coops is even funnier :o
3. We dont expect or want any credit for that what we do - we want fun!

ps. only thing that i want to accept is that we r maybe like little kids playing this game in the way we like it, what not means that we r stupid or retarded ... we r maybe "old",  but even a old daddy wants to have fun sometimes (as example).[/quote]

So why the hell do you want to do this on my, or any other guys server then? Do whatever you want, but do it on your own server, right? or you dont have enough money to buy one? Not enough guys who want to play with you on your server... Just tell me what it is? Have fun, do it on your own server, or one of your friends who support your philosophy, not on others servers, because of the numereous reasons I already posted..
Title: Amazing!
Post by: hoax-ravenheckler on June 21, 2005, 05:27:07 pm
Everyone got there own definition of "fucking up the game".

I think that the clan cheating is the worse.
Your opinion is that making cheats is the worst thing that could happen.

And you think the TKC dev's are cheating in public and teamkilling?
If you would have read earlyer topics about this than you would have known many of us are against the teamkilling.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 21, 2005, 05:32:18 pm
Quote from: HoaX
Everyone got there own definition of "fucking up the game".

I think that the clan cheating is the worse.
Your opinion is that making cheats is the worst thing that could happen.

And you think the TKC dev's are cheating in public and teamkilling?
If you would have read earlyer topics about this than you would have known many of us are against the teamkilling.

Being against teamkilling, and still calling your community and toppics TeamKill and Cheating Community or whatever it stands for? Come on, open your eyes. Like posted before at one hand you say no, but on the other hand you support it?
What do you expect with such forums etc, that people will not do it? A little bit responsibility could be in place you know? Or everyone forgot what that means?

Clan cheating? Screw clans, never wanted to be associated with them, never wanna be one and never wanna be in one. All stuff about ownage and pwnage and whatever you guys call the: I am better than every single one of you...come on. Play games for fun and pleasure, not for who is the best. Besides, our point of view of teamplay..I already explained.. So let's leave it by that.

You guys write tools to circumvate bans, promote teamkilling and cheating, on or not on public servers, it doesnt matter, the result is simply that people start using your 'knowledge', your tools, your cheats, your name and start screwing up other people's games. And all that is in the context of how is being played on the server (and that is defined by the admin/owner of it, and NOT by the gamers on it)

[edit]
Besides, I am not against cheating, not that I do it or ever use cheating (cant beat a game, then get better!), do what you want. But leave servers alone and dont make your tools public so every numnut can start screwing up games where they want. A lot of servers play teamplay, and yes cheaters do fuckup the games there, especially on teamrespawn servers etc. Because it's highly irritating but I have the idea that a few guys do love that part...
[/edit]

[edit2]
btw, if you follow the rules on servers, you will be respected. So there is no reason for getting banned, and starting to rejoin/cheat/teamkill. Simple as that, so mainly there is no reason to start fucking up other's games... At least thats the way on my servers. But still my pov stands: you are in someone else's server, you are bound to their rules and ruling. Simple as that, and because this is internet, it doesnt mean it gets turned around.
[/edit2]
Title: Amazing!
Post by: ThisIsFun on June 21, 2005, 05:54:56 pm
Quote from: Nane_Nena

First of all I was not only talking about him, but about the whole community about posts like: we don't care we do what we want, ever, never, whatever.

But.. you just can't lump a large group of people together under one heading.
That's like saying all anti-cheaters are crybaby's who only and moan and have never provided the gaming community with anything useful (which in my opinion is as bad if not worse than cheating)

Sure, we may all annoy you the same, but that doesn't mean we all ruin your gameplay (as such).. I personally, in recent history, have only ever used wallhacks in CS:S to stalk people and knife them. Often my k:d ratio was 1:4 because it's hard to move around without being spotted by someone else other than the person you follow, but you get the idea), that doesn't 'destroy' gameplay in the generalized way you may make it sound. I think. Just a personal opinion there, like everything I say.


Quote from: Nane_Nena
but don't bother other people with it. .... ..after a while, because of so many cheaters and not fun to play there anymore.

Well, consider it may be because it is an oldish game, and oldish games do tend to die out over time.. Not always through cheaters? Though, you may loose an even larger chunk of the community if people were leaving because it was getting old, and cheats weren't there. Cheating adds a whole new element, which conversely to what you're saying, would make people stay longer, while admittedly making some who were getting bored of it anyway, leave. I'd guess it'd equal the natural-die-out-rate of a game all in all =P


Quote from: Nane_Nena

 it's my server, its my house, I make the rules and not the other way around.

That's a problem though, because you can't compare it to 'Your house" as it's more like a public park. You allow people to play there, and every so often, those dog-gone kids will drink in it, even though it's again your rules. But there's no way to constantly enforce this.. so.. yeah.. *shrugs*

Quote from: Nane_Nena
they have all budgets like EA games and others, and so on and so on, so they can make perfect games and work out bugs for over years and years afterwards.. get real, everything in life costs money, a lot is done for fun, but still people need to get breakfast and other food on their table, so they have to work on different things too, and so on...

well, now you mention it:
(March 31st, 2005; EA reported a profit for the full year of $504 million, off more than $70 million from the previous year's earnings.)
I suppose in the big picture that's not a lot of profit, but to have a successful business, it alllll depends on your product. Improving their product may cost them money in the short term, but give them greater profits in the long run? It's like when somebody first sets up a business, they pretty much have to loose money to begin with because of all the setting up / development they have to do to that business. I don't see what would make EA or anyone really exempt. If they developed decent anti cheating software, as well as making their products more popular through lack of cheaters compared to other games, after a while they could lease the Anti-Cheat technology to other game companies, making even more profit.

Crazier written by hoki..

{Edit-ith} I too, was once annoyed by Cheaters, and more-so by team killers, hence why I've never really TK'd, unless the person deserves it (And only one person in memory has ever been deserving of it really...){/Edit-ith}
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Solomon on June 21, 2005, 06:12:25 pm
My post will be very short, just the main idea.

OK, you have fun when you are cheating, killing each others, destroying somebody else's game.
But - why are you doing it even on locked servers? Servers that are locked because they want to be alone there?
If a server is not passworded, it means it is a public, free server. Everybody can go in and do whatever he wants. That's true.
But if server has a password? Why you feel a need to go there (bypass the psw) and destroy somebody's game? Password is a 100% understandable sign "we don't want you here".
Yes, you have a right to make a tool that can bypass server password. But I think you've already tested it enough. So why do you feel a need to use it more?
You'd have my respect if you'd make such tools, report it to Pterodon and let them do something with it (or just ignore it, but it is not your problem).
As already Nane said - you like what you do, so do it, no problem for me. No problem for me till you join my LOCKED server and ruin my game. If somebody have open server, no admins on it, his fault. He says - you can do whatever you want, I'm giving you this server. But when I lock my server, it is different.

Quote from: ThisIsFun

That's a problem though, because you can't compare it to 'Your house" as it's more like a public park. You allow people to play there, and every so often, those dog-gone kids will drink in it, even though it's again your rules. But there's no way to constantly enforce this.. so.. yeah.. *shrugs*

That's exactly what am I talking about now. The red part is not true, if the server is locked. Think about it.

That's all I wanted to say.
(And btw I've never seen Nane_Nena, I'm writing this on my own. Although I share some ideas with him as I see.)
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 21, 2005, 06:28:12 pm
Quote from: ThisIsFun

Well, consider it may be because it is an oldish game, and oldish games do tend to die out over time.. Not always through cheaters? Though, you may loose an even larger chunk of the community if people were leaving because it was getting old, and cheats weren't there. Cheating adds a whole new element, which conversely to what you're saying, would make people stay longer, while admittedly making some who were getting bored of it anyway, leave. I'd guess it'd equal the natural-die-out-rate of a game all in all =P

That's a problem though, because you can't compare it to 'Your house" as it's more like a public park. You allow people to play there, and every so often, those dog-gone kids will drink in it, even though it's again your rules. But there's no way to constantly enforce this.. so.. yeah.. *shrugs*


Ok here we go,  first of all thanks for your reply,build up of reasonable points and well powered by facts and thoughts.

My comment about it:
We play VC aswell as OFP in a way that the game doesnt die out that easily, our way is original altough mainly based on the tour of teamrespawn, long time ago. We play the games with teamspirit, coop, friendlyness and together with the ingame voice and funny guys, it makes it almost feel like a family, a brotherhood/army platoon idea. This sounds maybe gay, I don't care. Because of this way of play we stay as a big community, playing the same game with loads of different maps and players, all in the teamspirit way, teamrespawn, get the whole team through, teamleader, etc. etc. There is no room for TK'ers or cheaters nor rambo's. Simple as that . To come back on the point; you make the games as interesting as you want, also without cheats, tk and so on and so on. Both games still live heavily with us and I guess it will be at least until vc2/ofp2/aa comes out. So to round that up: There are other ways than cheating, which comply more to honesty, fairplay and teamspirit. Thats the way we play, thats the way we do it, and we don't need tk'ers, rambo'ers or any cheaters or whatever.

About the house/server part, the fact remains, we have many admins, we have some rules, WE decide if somebody may play yes or no and really, and then I mean really really, NOT the other way around. And don't get this wrong, everyone can just play with us as long as they are following the rules, if they don't they can get kicked, explained, an hour ban, a few hours ban.. maybe longer, but still there is an active admin force around. So it's obey or leave, and IMHO we have all the right to do that, and the players have LESS right to try to get back in by hacking/cracking/cheating and what so ever. Again, it's my server, it's my playground, call it like you want, and you are bound to my/our rules.

Teamkilling on servers like these, SUCKS, cheaters..well haven't seen them yet nor spotted them, but also SUCKS, guys circumvating bans are IRRITATING but ok, it comes with the 'job'.

My question mroe to you guys is, stop the nonsense on servers that dont want you, don't think you really may do what you want to do, because it really doesnt work like that, and it only brings up hate and misunderstandings. And I stay with my statement IMHO its immature!

And you are right, I shouldn't talk about EVERYONE in this community, because you have good guys and bad guys, but being called the TKC-Community and reading about teamkilling, cheats, bancircumvating etc, doesn't really give me a nice view on this..
Title: Amazing!
Post by: ThisIsFun on June 21, 2005, 06:42:22 pm
I understand your issue with locked servers, and I personally don't dispute that case.

However, like I said, you can't just lump all cheaters together in what they do, not all of them do do (tee hee) that. I'd respect the servers privacy personally, but I'm still (occasionally) a cheater..

I just know, that when people go on about cheaters, because I class myself as such, even though the way I cheat it's usually less than disruptive, it still points fingers to me, and my way of doing things differs from some/most.. Even though I can't speak for the whole community, like nobody can, I can speak for myself, and the way I cheat, I don't see why many would have much of a real problem with *me*. It's just sort of a personal blow.

So I guess my point is, like you've done, point out the things you dislike, don't just say "i hate teh cheat0rs because they maek my rank go down!!!1!" that will make you sound a tad more like a reasonable human being and .. yeah. At least get you listened to, perhaps.

Now you can have anyone who does that sorta joining locked server thing, reply, and at least you'll be able to communicate about it and it won't frag in the riff raff like me who can't see what you're trying to put across
Title: Amazing!
Post by: ThisIsFun on June 21, 2005, 06:52:41 pm
Quote from: Nane_Nena
And you are right, I shouldn't talk about EVERYONE in this community, because you have good guys and bad guys, but being called the TKC-Community and reading about teamkilling, cheats, bancircumvating etc, doesn't really give me a nice view on this..


Like er .. HoaX said
Quote
And you think the TKC dev's are cheating in public and teamkilling?
If you would have read earlyer topics about this than you would have known many of us are against the teamkilling.


Sure, it may be named the TKC-community, but it's not just the name that brings people to a community, sometimes it's just being around people that you like and may not fully agree with, but enjoy their company/style/common viewpoints and so on.. Not everyone in the racing community love racing, but just have an overall fascination with cars, and what better place to find likewise minded people than in a racing community(?)

Anyway, I'm tired having had little sleep over the past week, so after I finish up my assessment I shall be sleeping. Nice debating with you.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 21, 2005, 06:57:57 pm
Quote from: ThisIsFun
Quote from: Nane_Nena
And you are right, I shouldn't talk about EVERYONE in this community, because you have good guys and bad guys, but being called the TKC-Community and reading about teamkilling, cheats, bancircumvating etc, doesn't really give me a nice view on this..


Like er .. HoaX said
Quote
And you think the TKC dev's are cheating in public and teamkilling?
If you would have read earlyer topics about this than you would have known many of us are against the teamkilling.


Sure, it may be named the TKC-community, but it's not just the name that brings people to a community, sometimes it's just being around people that you like and may not fully agree with, but enjoy their company/style/common viewpoints and so on.. Not everyone in the racing community may agree on which brand's best, but they all love racing(?)

Anyway, I'm tired having had little sleep over the past week, so after I finish up my assessment I shall be sleeping. Nice debating.


You're righteous. True.
My excuse for threating everyone the same.

One of my standpoints remain, at least for our community TKC-Community is all BUT helpfull. More annoying than anything else.

I also have numereous reports of everywhere of servers about cheaters, teamkillers and such, and thus I totally DISAGREE the whole cheating/teamkilling/rejoining after banned stuff, and thus with the developers of these things.

Also, I dont know if you meant it personnally about that a cheater was screwing up 'our' kills and we cry about that.. if so, that is TOTALLY not the point, as explained earlier we don't play like that, we don't play like that at all..

Still waiting for some replies from people, why they think they may go into servers where they are not welcome and that they may do whatever they want to do. Gimme some valid points there.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: GameBro on June 21, 2005, 07:21:04 pm
your CNN Reporter or something?

How can you tell, that no1 is wanted on your server?, when he joins with different ID? so you kick alot People of then, later you wonder if some1 is messing around with you?
So LOCK your Server and play with your own. Tell me just if I join your Server, no hax as normal and play fair. I kill some1 just by mistake ,and I say sorry m8..not my day. Boom you kick me off, and I waited 40 minutes to start that Game. So you say I?m not welcome then? comeon get a littlebit on the Ground Super-Admin with no Clan but a Server.
You allways get back revange later you can cry about not haveing a normal Game, no1 cares about you. I?m a normal Player, and I never played games with Cheats, but I use the ID-Changer for those kind of Super-Admins, if you dont respect others you dont get respect too.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: M. O. on June 21, 2005, 07:26:43 pm
Quote from: Nane_Nena


Lol, as a site admin/owner I whould have expected a somewhat more insightfull answer.

All is just to make an example, ofcoarse its not 100% comparable, but still you have to honour the guy or group that hosts the server, just like in real life. Every site, every server, and so on, you have to obey the owners/makers/admins. Simple as that, it's their SERVER, their MONEY and their TIME and WORK. First off you need to have respect for such a thing, even if you don't have that (left alone the fact that there is something wrong with you if so), you should respect the rules of the server. That is the whole point, and no matter what you say to make it look/sound good, still it isn't correct to say: We can do whatever we like on any server we like. That is just total bullshit...
To take an example of your 'there is no internet police/cheat police' and so on... here we go again: So if there is no police in the reallife, or no police 'around' or no law for it, you may murder, steal, abuse etc. anybody and anything? Get real.

Real life and 'virtual life' is connected to eachother, you may find that untrue, but then again, you are not very insightfull. Why? There are still people behind the other end of the pc's, it are still people whom you play with/against, and it are still people that bought a server, rented server-room, paying the bills and last but not least making things possible by working hard for it.

You can not deny that, and thus real life and virtual world are still connected with eachother. Maybe you are not in the same room, the same house, the same street, town or country, it doesn't matter, you are still humans together in one way or the other.



I?m just lowering myself to your level ;) I don?t agree with that you should honour the server admin, if that?s the case he should also honour the people who play on his server, because without them the server/admin is nothing. The admin is usually someone who creates a server, that?s fine for me, I sometimes also do. It?s nothing special apart from setting a few basic settings like game length maps et cetera. But is an admin really supposed to tell how everyone is supposed to play? No, I don?t think so. There are a few basic rules in a game. How you score, how you shoot etc. Then there are many other elements in the game that you can interpret yourself. Like your own gaming style, what gun you prefer, if you prefer to sneak or not, play aggressive or defensive, your stance on TKing, Cheating and so on. There?s no built in rule that limits these freedoms, therefore I can interpret the rules as I want, just like you do as an admin. A very long time ago I was just like you, I cared about internet morale etc, but who gives a damn. Sometimes the best way to win or have fun is to avoid conventional unwritten rules to test new strategies in RTS or FPS games, build a few nukes more than what?s ?allowed? or something like that. Treaties are not supposed to be broken but they can. To make a real life connection (as you always like to do), there are no rules in wars nor in war games either. It?s not foolish, selfish or childish to play a little bit different than what other people do. It adds variation, and variation means fun. Of course I don?t cheat the first few weeks when playing a new game because I still think they are varied. In good games like OFP it took me a few years before I slowly began to cheat. Right before I started to cheat I almost didn?t play at all, but now through cheating OFP is fun again, because I vary the unwritten rules/agreements, which in fact don?t exist. They?re all interpretations.

If you think OFP/VC/Whatever is boring and whine over cheats, and it?s a central part of your life, I think that we do you a favour helping  you discover the world outside games (which you usually relate to with absurd examples, maybe you need a little bit more experience of it? Who knows? I don?t).

In many ways TKing and cheating makes the game even more difficult. It adds a greater challenge. For instance, think about a TKer who has both teams against him, isn?t that twice as hard? If he is a skilled player and is bored because of the easiness (no variation) of the game he wants a bigger challenge and starts to TK everyone. This is how I started TKing in VC Demo, I was in top 50 of ATG.

I don?t think we can get much longer with this discussion. We value things differently. You value virtual life as high as real life. Admins above players. Players above other players. I think everyone is equal, everyone has his own right to play as he wants. The admin can kick him because he has the power to do so, but the cheater might also have the ability to get back if he wants because everyone has got the same right to play a game he has bought. You got to accept that.

And don?t mix in IQ with this, it has nothing to do with it. Although I must admit that breaking normal ways of life or playing and finding new ways that work is a bit more difficult than just obeying orders without knowing why or referring to ?that it has to be like that? or ?it?s so just?.

Cheating in games is such a small problem, have you ever thought about real real life problems like famine, poverty and oppression before? Cheating is nothing compared to it, and therefore I just laugh at your comments where you make it look like you and your fellow admins are the ones who are oppressed and abused. We don?t care about small problems in a non existent world. We don?t think about them at all. Why make games more complicated than they really are, we only play for fun.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Solomon on June 21, 2005, 07:36:48 pm
Quote from: Mullah Omar
I don?t agree with that you should honour the server admin, if that?s the case he should also honour the people who play on his server, because without them the server/admin is nothing. The admin is usually someone who creates a server, that?s fine for me, I sometimes also do. It?s nothing special apart from setting a few basic settings like game length maps et cetera. But is an admin really supposed to tell how everyone is supposed to play? No, I don?t think so.

There is a big difference if you just start your game and set up a server and if somebody has a special dedicated server (now I mean real physical server, computer) only for running more VC gameservers. He has to pay for it, he has to take care of it, maintain it etc. It is not just about setting some settings.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: M. O. on June 21, 2005, 07:38:51 pm
Yes there's a big difference between dedicated servers and just setting up a match once. But there's no difference between the settings for the game server (program supplied with the game), it's still the same things the admin has got to do, same settings etc. And that was what I wanted to point out. The admin can set a few basic rules apart from the rules of the gamemode, but the rest are unwritten and are interpreted by the players.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 21, 2005, 07:40:36 pm
As stated before we play teamplay COOP, not against eachother, that gets boring after 2 months. We play as a team, with teamleader and make things as real as possible, that is a totally different gameplay than on 99% of the other servers. Simple as that. Our community with 400+ members is built ON those rules, we play by those rules and like it or not, everyone who plays on our servers, which costed 2000 euro, 100 euro a month of data traffic and a lot of other pieces of software and such, WE make the rules and YOU abide them, and so there are many more servers and communities that payed lots of money for their servers, hosting, data-traffic, software and so on. Also a lot of work is put up to produce a different gamestyle and to maintain that, and believe it or not in the contrary to you guys playstyle, we absolutely DONT need cheats to make our games interesting, in our line of gameplay it even fucks it up completely, you play for the individual, we play for the team. As it should be meant to be played, but thats discussable.

The point and fact remains, a community worked for a working model of rules and gameplay, server admins pay for their server, hosting and data-traffic, the player needs to follow those rules, which are not about what weapon you use or whatsoever, but what mainly about that you should work as a team and not as an individual. Don't follow them, we have the right to put you off the server simple as that. That you want to get back at the admin who kicked/banned you..that is simply totally immature, YOU dont follow the rules of it, so its not US who are wrong, YOU are wrong.  (puberty, anyone?)

As said before we have a large community and a lot of guys that all share the same thoughts etc. We don't have to make servers for you guys, you guys should be happy that you MAY play at the servers, and otherwise you can start your own or play elsewhere.

And ofcoarse this is all put up to the extreme, but it's simply the way it works, but it's not as if we are hostile to our members, players and so on or that we kick/ban because of an accident, or because of 1 mistake or whatsoever, there is a high tolerance, but TK'ing on purpose means simply a ban, how hard can that be?

and I was speaking mainly about VC, cause our OFP servers are closed, member-only, so we dont have to deal with these 'problems'.

I stand and still stand with the fact, we pay, we make, you play. That makes US the 'boss' of our servers and not the other way around. If you still think that it's not right, then really, you got a serious problem with how stuff works in the world, as well as in the virtual world.

Admins are around to protect the way of gameplay, the gameplay that the whole community likes to play this way. Without that protection, games get bored, games are out of interest, and you start needing guys like you: cheaters.


ps about "the rest is unwritten..."well, no, rules are on a website, like it should be, for everyone to read. And stated in the join message. How hard is that?

You guys are seriously off-world here. We pay, we work, you play, we are the boss.

I host a party at home, you come, you respect my rules.
I have a restaurant, these are my rules, you come eat, you respect my rules.

Reallife and the virtual world are connected, whatever you may think.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: M. O. on June 21, 2005, 08:05:33 pm
Yes you host the server but that doesn't make you "the boss" as I stated before. We're playing as we do as long as there's noone enforcing your "law". We have no reason to follow imaginary rules. If you can't accept that you can close your servers, moan here or whatever, do as you want. There are no rules to follow either, we don't approve your rules.

I fully understand and respect your points and values, but you should also understand that there are other ways games can be played and there's no way to change that.  :)

Quote
I host a party at home, you come, you respect my rules.
I have a restaurant, these are my rules, you come eat, you respect my rules.


Obviously this is a bad comparison as people actually don't follow your server rules, while noone would dispute the rules of a restaurant. It's not the same thing and even if it would be a good comparison it wouldn't be telling anyone how to act somewhere else.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: hoax-ravenheckler on June 21, 2005, 08:33:51 pm
Quote from: Nane_Nena
Quote from: HoaX
Everyone got there own definition of "fucking up the game".

I think that the clan cheating is the worse.
Your opinion is that making cheats is the worst thing that could happen.

And you think the TKC dev's are cheating in public and teamkilling?
If you would have read earlyer topics about this than you would have known many of us are against the teamkilling.


Being against teamkilling, and still calling your community and toppics TeamKill and Cheating Community or whatever it stands for? Come on, open your eyes. Like posted before at one hand you say no, but on the other hand you support it?
What do you expect with such forums etc, that people will not do it? A little bit responsibility could be in place you know? Or everyone forgot what that means?



It isn't my community and it won't be mine.

So if I wouldn't like TKing, I shouldn't join this community?
As I can assure you, I haven't cheated in public longer than 10 minutes.
The most times it was just to test cheats.

And I make this cheats to learn somethings from it.
Not to get my so called ownage up.

As I can't be botherd nor what my k/d ratio is nether what you or any other things of me.
You like me, ok.
You Like me not, ok.

I can't really care.
And I don't think anyone in here really cares about what they think about us and how they think about us.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: LastResort on June 21, 2005, 08:48:51 pm
Yeah your kinda fighting a losing battle here dude. I mean comming onto our forums, having a go at us, you didn't pay for these forums.. your not a member, you have no right to do what you are doing!!

Wait i see a pattern.... :lol:

But any way, i was once like you.. i once dispised the TKC community. But now im with them i love it!!!
Title: Amazing!
Post by: GameBro on June 21, 2005, 09:24:13 pm
thats a typical sort of People who mix private Live with Game, look I do have Friends a Wife ,and 2 Kids. I play for fun and I dont need cheats to play. I respect every1 who shows me respect, but if you think when you have to play Big-Boss on your Server and thread People like shit and kick who you like, so what you do in your Private Life then?
You know People like you are the real little bitches, who go here and there just to make them look how great they are, what real admins they are. Thats why I like this Community, here I got the Medicin for you.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Solomon on June 21, 2005, 09:34:51 pm
To the real word - virtual word comparison:

Is it really so hard to see some similar things there?
I have a different example here, yellow is virtual world, cyan is real word.

You build your own gym, you pay the building, you pay property tax for it, you pay cleaners etc.
You buy your own computer server, you pay monthy fees for i-net connection, you have to maintain it etc.

You allow your friends to come to your gym to play basketball there. They all have key to the gym door. The door are locked.
You allow community members to connect to your server, they all know the password. The server is passworded (locked).

Your friends are having fun in your gym, they are playing basketball with their own rules, let's say something like you can score only for 3 points otherwise it is not counted. May look strange to others, but they are having fun with this game-style.
Community members are having fun on your server, they play by their own rules, lets say for example CTF with only one team allowed to score in 30 minutes, then only the second team (I don't know it is not important). May look strange to others, but they are having fun with this game-style.

Now somebody breaks the door and starts to play with them with his own rules, playing against both teams, breaking their rules, ruining their game.
Now somebody bypass the server password and starts to play with them with his own rules, teamkilling, cheating, breaking their rules.

Now your money is used for this non-welcome player, you don't know him, you don't want him there, he is annoying to you.
Now your money is used for this non-welcome player, you don't know him, you don't want him there, he is annoying to you.

Can you tell me what are the differences? I mean this not as a rhetorical question, I would really like to know your answer to it.
You really don't see how similar is it?
And don't say me the difference is that once you play Vietcong and second time basketball. I purposely used basketball, because it is sport+fun, the same as computer games (yes, computer games are sport, as well as for example chess is sport).
Title: Amazing!
Post by: TheHeckler! on June 21, 2005, 09:38:59 pm
I will be happy to join the debate with you Nane_nena, unfortuntely I do not have the time at the moment. If time permits, I will join the fray this evening.  :wink:
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Head2000 on June 22, 2005, 01:25:13 am
Hi guys, I am one of players who visits Nane-Nena servers regularly, I have read all the previous posts in this topic abd I only want to add this:
I agree with you that after few months the game as most players play it becomes boring. Then you can leave it or find another approach. Ok, your approach is to try cheats and/or TK or whatever. Our way is to play as one team and approach real combat style. I dont say which way is better, both our groups/communities want to have some fun in their way. But there is one important difference: You can play on any server, on every server you can cheat and/or teamkill and have fun. Our community cant have fun on any server, because we have to have a certain place to meet and teamplay. Everybody from our community comes back to these servers regularly to teamplay with the players who want to teamplay. And Nane_Nena and other admins are there to keep our gamestyle for us. They are not acting like "Big Bosses", they are there to help us. You guys here say the admin is not a boss but he should respect the players who want to play. They respect, they even help us who want to TEAMplay on their servers. Yes, they dont respect the guys like some of you who ruin our games and want to have their kind of fun. But what about you guys? Do you respect us? And I dont mean the admins now (I am not any admin myself), but the players. Over 400 players who come to these servers regularly and expect some kind of game-style every time when we join. I spent 250+ hours playing at these servers because I want to TEAMplay. Now you say you have right to join our servers and cheat and TK and ruin our games. Yes, there is no police. But is really your point of game-style to ruin the other peoples games? I hope you understand if we want to play our game-style and keep it, we sometimes need to kick people who dont understand us or simply dont want to. When there is a newbie to our servers, we explain him the rules and he can srick to them or leave. Most players respect this. Not your community or at least some of you. Pls let me know if you understand and respect this.

EDIT: One more thing about that "respect" thing. Admin cannot respect all the players who join his server if he wants to keep some kind of game-style. If you respect all, there is no gamestyle but mess. Yes, you can play like this, but we all know its boring. You guys when you cheat or teamkill dont respect the other players too, so whats the difference between you "respectfull" cheaters and our "boss" admin? /EDIT END
Title: Amazing!
Post by: ZOldDude on June 22, 2005, 02:38:32 am
I play on TMG and 6th as basicly that is the only game style I enjoy.
I have no problem following the rules on those servers.

I have been kicked out unfairly on both in the past year and just used programs to  re-enter along with a name change....long befor the info was made public here.

However if I were you befor I came here and started saying that TKC is hacking your passwords I would first look at those "400" people who have the passwords.

I have no doubt whatsoever that it is one or more of these of these "beloved" and tusted persons pulling this prank.

It sure as hell is not me that much you can bank on.
This is not to say that programming is not to be found.....but I do not intend to share it with people.
Not at this point in time at least.

If I could sit on all the info I had for the past 18 months then I can afford to follow my OWN personal rules as far as having permission from those who programed things befor making them public.

However if you have bothered to read the main site page you would see that TKC as a group has decided to make all the VC/FA stuff public out of  the boredom that the small handfull of players still in the game have.
This game died long ago but nobody has covered the open grave....thus about each month untill Vietcong 2 goes retail small bits will be made public to generate some sort of intrest.

The finnal act is to post how HradBa works and how to defeat any part of it or just bypass it altogether AFTER Vietcong 2 is retail.

ID#'s/Account keys/Old-New anticheat programs.....all a waste of time,effort and distubution.

Vietcong 2 has things planed,programed and waiting with very few re-codes expected depending on what goes to the pressor befor retail.
Just wanted to let you know you have more excitement to look forward to.

Z

PS: I think that I saw you invite people in the OFP section to come and TRY to deleat you from your own servers. I myself would not want to invite such troubles by giving permission to attempt this.

PPS: Would you please let me know on what DATE this started happing? I may be able to offer some insight.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Solomon on June 22, 2005, 03:49:12 am
Quote from: ZOldDude

This game died long ago but nobody has covered the open grave....thus about each month untill Vietcong 2 goes retail small bits will be made public to generate some sort of intrest.

You are wrong. Vietcong is not dead. Why are so many people playing it (without your new fresh blood - cheats and TK)? Why are so many new clans starting (I have a good view on this cos I'm co-admin of one big Vietcong web)? Why is the game still seling very well?
Some players have found a different way than you how to make the game "fresh" again. New user maps, just playing them or even trying to make some, this can tight you to the game again very badly, belive me. New gamestyle, for example real coop, something like Nane_Nena is talking about. Second "group" of people don't have to find something new, cos they are still having fun with the "normal" Vietcong. Another people just started to play Vietcong right now, so the whole game is fresh for them. "Old game" doesn't mean that no new players are coming to play it. For example not everybody has a great PC so not everybody is able to play the new games... Btw did you notice that a new addon was released? Yes, I know, Red Dawn is not good addon, but how can you say game is dead when OFFICIAL addons are still beeing created?
If the game dies for you, you cannot just say that it died for everybody!
Viecong is one of the games that is played on official pro-gamers tournament and leagues. Lets take Counter-Strike (1.6), very old game, nothing new is happening there, but still it is the most popular on-line FPS game. Why you don't say CS is dead? Or do you think it is dead?
I'm not saying this because I play Vietcong, I don't feel a need to stand up for it, I'm just trying to tell you that the game is not dead when you are starting to be bored with it. You are not the only one on the world, did you notice this?
But I understand you, for you the game was boring, so you've found something new. For me the game was boring too, so I've found something new too (different game-style). But there is a big difference between us -  I'm not bothering you. (Here "you" is not meant personally, but in general.)

Quote from: ZOldDude

The finnal act is to post how HradBa works and how to defeat any part of it or just bypass it altogether AFTER Vietcong 2 is retail.

ID#'s/Account keys/Old-New anticheat programs.....all a waste of time,effort and distubution.

Vietcong 2 has things planed,programed and waiting with very few re-codes expected depending on what goes to the pressor befor retail.
Just wanted to let you know you have more excitement to look forward to.

Hey, it is great (I'm not ironic), game developers need such feedback and testing. If you find how to cheat the game, how to bypass the psw etc., test it and report it to Pterodon, you will make a good job and you'll have my respect.
But testing is not similar to using for your own pleasure. Don't tell me you still need to test the old well-known easy way how to bypass the server psw. And if yes - so why don't you create your own closed server and don't try it there? You are a community, so you have more computers, you can test whatever you want/need.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Head2000 on June 22, 2005, 04:19:31 am
Quote from: ZOldDude
I play on TMG and 6th as basicly that is the only game style I enjoy.
I have no problem following the rules on those servers.

I have been kicked out unfairly on both in the past year and just used programs to  re-enter along with a name change....long befor the info was made public here.


Ok, it happens somebody is kicked or banned unfairly sometimes. We are all humans. It happened to me once too. But I found and admin, told him what happened and he helpd me out. Thats the way how to solve these problems i think. Not by nick change. I believe most of us are understanding and thinking people.

Quote from: ZOldDude
However if I were you befor I came here and started saying that TKC is hacking your passwords I would first look at those "400" people who have the passwords.


Yes, this password is only formal. They just have to register and read the rules to obtain it. So everybody who visits our web page can have it. No need to hack it. I dont complain TKC hacked this password. But some of you guys joined several times our game, didnt respond any textchat messages, went ramboing and when he was told he was not welcome then he mass teamkilled. Thats what I dont like. And believe me, we almost never experience any problems of that kind with those 400+ registered players.

I am only trying to say: Yes guys, have fun in the way you like it, but do not destroy the fun of the other players, who like different approach like teamplay. Thats all.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: ZOldDude on June 22, 2005, 05:01:12 am
Not much point in a debate over if the game is "dead" or not.
From a point of sales most companys would say it is and time to make somthing new.

I have no idea who is buying this game,only that no software store that I know of in southern California had it on the shelfs 9-10 months after it came out.....most people here returned it to the store for a refund as it just was a  hunk-o-junk trying to get non-jerky frames with a system listed on the box,and as such they were right in getting a refund.
This is why the game was a total flop in the US and Canada and for that reason only.

34 million people here in California alone.....I must know the IP# of all 16 people who play it.

However SOME of us do play it.
I built two new computers JUST to play it.

It still has chance to make 10's of thousands of disk sales here.....if it was reboxed AND proper specs clearly printed.....but that is not the way Take2 works.

After all you can't blaim people for being angry and wanting a refund for somthing that was never a market item when the box LIED about 700-1000Mhz now can you?

I can say this much for a fact....if your system can get 60-300+ fps in Vietcong (I get as much as 319) then it will run EVERYTHING.
Playing with "box spec" @ 2-20 fps is just not going to sell.

Report things to Pterodon and Take2 for "respect"?
If the team of free/unpaid/mostly under aged "testers" system has not worked so far....perhaps they should employ pro's like everyone else.

The people I know here that test do not do it for months,10-12 hours a day for "respect",they do it for a paycheck.

Sony,ATARI,Activision,EA and Black Ops all have testing centers located withen 4 miles of me.

$18 USD per hour and overtime pay is the going rate for console systems.

Oh well.....alive or dead.....I judge by how many people play online and TKC will do what it does.


However my offer to help with the problems you now face with people bypassing the server password are still open if you wish.
I will not provide new code.
I only need to know min info such as DATES-TIMES (GMT)...if you have logged IP's even better.

Z

PS: If you read the main site and some of the news in the forums here you would know that TKC does alot more than just make cheats.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Head2000 on June 22, 2005, 05:10:01 am
TKC FAQ:

"Player vs. Community Philosophy"

"As mentioned above, an individual player's right to enjoy a game is absolute in our eyes and does not need to be compromised for the enjoyment of others. This belief extends from two facts. One, players do not know personally the people with whom they play with; they are complete strangers meeting online for entertainment."

Negative. Maybe on some CTF or DM servers this is right, but not on Coop servers with regular players. And even if it was true, what does it implicate?

"And two, no matter what a player does to others during a match and no matter how they react; at the end of the day it?s still only a game."

Yes, its only a game, but when somebody ruins your game it can make you mad as much as when somebody ruins your work or whatever. Ruining a mission after 1 hour of hard Coop game menas only this: 1 played had fun and 9 others are mad / disapointed. Is this the ratio you prefer?

"The belief that one must ?show respect? to their fellow players is not shared in this community. Respect is something that must be earned through time, not automatically given to strangers in an online game."

We earn respect through time in our community. Anyway we show respect to newbies as well. We show the same respect as if we met them on a street. Because IMHO only coward shows higher respect in real life than when he is "hidden" behind his/her computer. But be sure we will not respect on-purpose-teamkillers who think that it is ok when they have some fun for 5 minutes and ruin 1 hour of game for the other players.

You know what is sad? I real life you would never venture something like that. And if you would, somebody would smash your face.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: hoax-ravenheckler on June 22, 2005, 11:27:57 am
Solomon,

About the virtual life and the real life.
Have you ever thought about the fact that we payed for the game aswell?
So were allowed to do with it what ever we want.
And you can complain however that won't make us go away.

It is actually the fun part for the most people.
They want people to get pissed off.

And have you ever thought about the fact what a M79 does in VC at all?
Have you ever used it?
We just put it in the MP game.

And the fact that they make SP cheats aswell should say they agree on cheats in one hand.



Then the respect part,

If people would even try to do nice against me I would be nice to them and I would have respect for them.

But as the most people just go screaming and say things like:

TKC FUCKER!
FUCKING CHEATER!
TKC CHEATER!!
CHEATER!!!!!:@:@


This is what they say a lot and this just makes me laughs and still remembers me to the time I was against the cheating aswell.

Now I just can't care and just hate it when people say there good and they cheat.
I can assure you that I've never cheated in a public server for a longer time then 10 minutes.

And then I used the "g0thmode" hack.
Which I still need to remake, but thats just another part of the story.

This topic ones again shows that the most of the non-cheaters and cheaters just can't get a hang with each other.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 22, 2005, 12:29:33 pm
Quote from: HoaX
About the virtual life and the real life.
Have you ever thought about the fact that we payed for the game aswell?
So were allowed to do with it what ever we want.
And you can complain however that won't make us go away.

Dude, this is sooo funny, so you think that because YOU bought a game, YOU may do ANYTHING you want with it on ANY server which ISN'T belonging to YOU? Right. Ok, here we go again. You buy a bike, you put it in my backyard, you say: it's my bike I may do whatever I like with it.. WRONG because you are putting in MY backyard. And I am getting quite annoyed at the moment about you guys so called philosophy. I guess you guys are lost already. I repeat just once, I am the hoster (payer,builder,maintainer,etc), YOU are the player, and that makes me on MY server boss above you. You think when I go to the shop, say here is my virtual money, I want to buy a virtual server, for the oh so virtual internet, they say, oh ok, we accept virtual money, and I say here, you have my virtual money, now I want my virtual server. RIGHT. You pay with reallife money, with reallife blood sweat and tears of work, and you telling me, oh well, the server is only 'virtually' e.g. on the internet, so I can do whatever I like on it? Right. Try doing that with a government website or server, do with it what you like.. maybe hack it, it's fun aint it? But I guess you get consequences in reallife. Ok you are right, there are laws for that, but there is still something like 'moral'. You come on my property, you don't behave, I kick your ass, that's the way it works.

It's your game...copy..
You payed for the game ...copy..
You want to do whatever you like with the game (like cheating) ...copy..
You want to do whatever you like with the game (like cheating) on a server who isn't your own or where the stuff you do isn't tollerated ...WRONG..

You can ignore this all, as much as you like, but wake up, open your eyes and see the truth; you all make up some nice words and make it look nice, but still you are totally wrong. No matter if you are on a site, a server, a game, in somebodies house or club, you obey their rules, otherwise you get 'kicked out'.

You talk so much about people not respecting you, so you take actions... well, the problem is mainly that a few guys here do not respect 'us' as in how we play and what we do on our server, so you get kicked/banned. And that is more valid than your point no matter what view you may have on this.

That's all I got to say, do whatever you like, run naked through your own home, go fingerpaint your own walls, but stay away from mine.

oooh I love my ps'es so here's another one:
Besides the whole: "this is my server, and you have to respect my rules" part, the fact still remains that you guys put the pleasure of one man above any other or group of others. This is the highest point of selfishness and respectless behaviour and I hope you guys are so different in your 'reallives', like this head2000 guy states: I guess in reallife someone whould have already smashed your faces in...
And hey, it's only pure immaturity that 'because you don't get direct consequences by acting like this in the 'virtual world' ', you do it.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Solomon on June 22, 2005, 02:21:25 pm
Quote from: ZOldDude

I have no idea who is buying this game,only that no software store that I know of in southern California had it on the shelfs 9-10 months after it came out.....

I have a news for you - California (and USA) is not the only country on the world. Vietcong game is most popular in Europe. In all Europe. In USA it is much worse, I know it, not many players in USA play Vietcong. But still there is really a lot of players in Europe who love this game. Your view of the world is absolutely selfish and blind - I don't like it - nobody like it, I think it is dead - everybody think it is dead, it's not selling in California - it's not selling anywhere ...

Quote from: ZOldDude

most people here returned it to the store for a refund as it just was a  hunk-o-junk trying to get non-jerky frames with a system listed on the box,and as such they were right in getting a refund.

Yes, I agree, Vietcong engine is not very good, but it has nothing to do with our discussion at all. I personaly have 3 years old computer and some user Vietcong maps are very hard to play on it, I have sometimes even around 5-10 FPS. But still I play it, because there is no such game other than Vietcong, no other game can offer me what Vietcong does.


Quote from: ZOldDude

This is why the game was a total flop in the US and Canada and for that reason only.

Again the same - you think someting, so it is true in general. Do you really think not-so-good engine is the only reason why the game is not so succesfull in USA and Canada? Maybe it is true, but I would never say it without an evidence or without a word "maybe" or "I think".

Quote from: ZOldDude

It still has chance to make 10's of thousands of disk sales here.....if it was reboxed AND proper specs clearly printed.....but that is not the way Take2 works.

A lot of games have the minimal HW requirements much under the real minimal HW you need to be able to play the game good. It's not only Vietcong. The minimal HW means the worst PC you need to START and PLAY the game. And the minimal HW written on VC box is good enough to PLAY the game. Of course, with low resolution, low details etc - but it is MINIMAL. But I agree that the recommended HW should be better, my PC is a little bit better than it and it is not what I'd recommend to somebody for Vietcong.
Let's take Half-Life 2 min. HW - 1,2 GHz, 256 MB RAM, 32 MB video card. Did you try to play HL2 on this computer?

Quote from: ZOldDude

Report things to Pterodon and Take2 for "respect"?
If the team of free/unpaid/mostly under aged "testers" system has not worked so far....perhaps they should employ pro's like everyone else.
The people I know here that test do not do it for months,10-12 hours a day for "respect",they do it for a paycheck.
Sony,ATARI,Activision,EA and Black Ops all have testing centers located withen 4 miles of me.
$18 USD per hour and overtime pay is the going rate for console systems.

It is hard to compare the SW gigants like EA with a small Pterodon. EA is US company with a lot of branches all over the world, with thousands of employees, with millions $ budget. Pterodon is a small Czech (Do you know where Czech Republic is? In the Europe. Europe is west of Asia.) firm with few tens of employees. They've made their own engine cos no other engine in that time was able to render jungle in real time, they made it nearly without any know-how. That's someting EA have no idea about. Vietcong is not so hypped game as HL2, Doom3, COD etc. But it has nothing to do with the fact, that many people like it. Especially in Europe. Maybe some players have different priorities here than in USA? And because the game budget was not so big, it is great when players help the developers to test the game. Many players reported bugs during official puplic free betatest, than new patches were created. Did you report what you've found too?

-- -- -----------------

Quote from: HoaX

Have you ever thought about the fact that we payed for the game aswell?
So were allowed to do with it what ever we want.
And you can complain however that won't make us go away.

No problem to add it to my comparison as well.
"Imaginary" life - The unwelcome annoying player has his own game, he paid for it so he can do whatever he wants with it.
Real life - The unwelcome annoying player has his own ball, he paid for it so he can do whatever he wants with it.
It is the same, for PC game and for basketball you need players, an object to play with (software or ball) and a place where to play with others (server or gym).

So I'm still waiting for some real differences between the expamples I've given...

Quote from: HoaX

And have you ever thought about the fact what a M79 does in VC at all?
Have you ever used it?
We just put it in the MP game.

And the fact that they make SP cheats aswell should say they agree on cheats in one hand.

First, I've used M79 in singleplayer campaign. And I really don't feel a need to have it in multiplayer. And it was the same when I was playing normal "ramboing" CTF or even TDM. M79 is what I'm really not missing in VC and I'm not alone. It was discussed on many forums already and there are allways many people who don't want it. Why? For example because killing with M79 is much easier than killing with nades and nades already can be annoying. So if you think people will thank you for what you've made (M79 for MP), you are not right. Yes, some people will thank you, some people will try it. But many others (including me) won't.

Quote from: HoaX

And the fact that they make SP cheats aswell should say they agree on cheats in one hand.

Nearly every game has build-in cheats for SP. There are many reasons for this. One of them is making the game reviews. Editors that are writing game reviews sometimes don't have enough time to play the whole game, but they must be able to know all parts of the game. So they sometimes use cheats to go though some parts to make it faster.
Second - it is much better for the game when a not so patient player in a hard part of game use some cheats to go through it. He has only two choices - stop playing the game or use cheats. (Talking about not patient player, otherwise of course the best is to try it again and again.)
I can say I used some game cheats, and I have no problems to admit it. But never in multiplayer game with other life players. Why? Because I don't think it is fair to them to be better than them only because of cheating. In MP there is no hard part of game you need cheats to come through.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Pure_666 on June 22, 2005, 05:32:35 pm
I am sorry but i didn't read the entire topic...
First off, respect for Nane, Mullah and  for posting as they do.
I agree with Nane, i don't mind people cheating... it's their own right to do it. But, as Nane said, i just don't like people cheating where it isn't allowed/wanted. Nane is overreacting a bit with his real life comparissing, but in general he's right. You should respect their demands(the admins). They make a server and ask for a few things, wich are stated in the rules. So respect that and keep by it.
Now i don't expect anyone from TKC to be like what i'm going to say(for as far as i can tell, lot's of respectable people) but in game i have only met cheaters, who cheat to ruin the game for other people. Now if that is not your motive, ok. But in the end, you may be doing that. Why aren't there special servers for this... or why don't cheaters try to find servers wich allow cheating? It is not such a hard job... so they must have some reason why they don't...

Anyway, i'm at school... and have to go... talk later:)
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Jimmy on June 22, 2005, 08:58:41 pm
In my town, we have serveral legal walls for graffity, placed by the goverment.

they are as grey as they were 2 years ago.

you get my point?  :wink:
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Solomon on June 22, 2005, 10:34:14 pm
Quote from: [TKC]LaVaPlaToZz
In my town, we have serveral legal walls for graffity, placed by the goverment.

they are as grey as they were 2 years ago.

you get my point?  :wink:

In my country there is a lot of thiefs, murderers and other criminals and I don't feel that I should be the same as they are.

You get my point?

Sprayers have fun by vandalizing somebody's house, some nice old building instead of wall assigned for them and you are using them as an excuse for you? You are kidding, aren't you? Yes, I see what did you want to say, I understand the connectedness. But using it as an excuse.... It says a lot about you....
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Pure_666 on June 22, 2005, 10:40:56 pm
And that only boosts my points... If there are special places for these people and they don't go there it must mean that they enjoy upsetting other people(only geeks/nerds get upset:P) or just pissing people off.... i don't see the point of this:S
Title: Amazing!
Post by: LastResort on June 22, 2005, 10:53:57 pm
Quote from: Solomon
Quote from: [TKC]LaVaPlaToZz
In my town, we have serveral legal walls for graffity, placed by the goverment.

they are as grey as they were 2 years ago.

you get my point?  :wink:

In my country there is a lot of thiefs, murderers and other criminals and I don't feel that I should be the same as they are.

You get my point?

Sprayers have fun by vandalizing somebody's house, some nice old building instead of wall assigned for them and you are using them as an excuse for you? You are kidding, aren't you? Yes, I see what did you want to say, I understand the connectedness. But using it as an excuse.... It says a lot of you....


The sprayers arn't playing by the rules... TKC don't play by the rules! The sprayers are defying the government, TKC defies the community who play by the rules. We have fun how we wanna have fun. We develop our programming skills by making cheats, we get to understand game code better. I know you say about wrecking the game for all the players who we own, and i can see where your comming from.. like i said i used to be on the otherside of the line. But this is how i see it.. this is my life... its the only one i get... and i wanna have fun. Now im in my late teen's im inot computers, i just built one and im hoping to go to college to learn more about them. VC in my eyes is the best game made ever in the history of gaming.. but i have gotten bored with it as of late, which made me sad. I found TKC and was happy once again.

My life+VC= Bored
My life+VC+TKC= YaY! :D

And maby if you stopped for a while, read over the forums and cleared the fog of hate that covers your eyes you might see that their are some damn decent chaps on here! So try to see them as a person not a TK'ing fucktard like you do. Try talking about things that you like with us, you never know we might have the same interestes as you guys. Just try and be a little more open...
Title: Amazing!
Post by: ZOldDude on June 23, 2005, 12:12:52 am
OK no point in me debate with everyone just let me say that........

If the game was REBOXED and PROPER specs printed and could sell to 1% of the people ONLY in the Republic of California it would sale 340,000 copys.
Thats an amount higher than ALL the sales the first 2 years of the game.

I gave you the reason why the game flopped in North America. They tend to have more money to spend and they just EXPECT to get good value.
The game running like crap as per the box specs did not sit well with people here.

Three years after the demo and now most peole who live in N.A. have 3 times the max box specs....it runs well on the systems most people here own now and COULD sale alot of copys.

The problem is that you and I do not control the market machine of Take2.

As far as TKC PEOPLE ruining the game....
All the Pterodon testers/PMT and clan leaders are also on this forum and I don't think that it is fair to them...or myself....to claim that they want to waste the game and piss people off.

I have been with TKC from just about day # 1 and I am very well known NOT to cheat online.

This is NOT a contrdiction of thought.
It is about a persons right to play the game as he or she sees fit to do so.

Did you know there is still TWO ways to crash the servers?
Did you know that a bug in GameSpy listing can be used to ERASE a server from the game list untill they reboot the game server (bug was reported nearly 4 year ago but never fixed)?

Not all knowage is safe to share.

Becuase I play by my OWN personal rules many things that I have found can not be shared even with the Staff of TKC.......and they never give me any crap about it or how I decide to play online or not.....I do get alot of crap from everyone else tho.

Just becuase I wait untill others who do the programming give permission to make things they shared with me public does not put me in bad light with TKC,nor should I telling TKC "this has permission now" make me an evil person to the rest of the people.

I will say that when VC2 comes out that I will join with the fun of raising hell for a few weeks if only to snub my detractors.....and what a hell on earth it will be :idea:

Z
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Solomon on June 23, 2005, 01:15:36 am
Quote from: LastResort

The sprayers arn't playing by the rules... TKC don't play by the rules! The sprayers are defying the government, TKC defies the community who play by the rules. We have fun how we wanna have fun.

Sprayers are desolating somebody else's stuff. They have no idea how owner of a house feels when he sees his house with some squiggle on it.
Btw if you know some REAL graffity-creater, he can tell you that only the bad sprayers are spaying tags (squiggle, just a sign) to the most dangerous/great place as possible. The real sprayers are artists that make nice pictures and they use only big boring concrete walls, not houses. They are happy when they have a special wall for them and thus they can show all people that beeing sprayer doesn't mean damaging buildings and monuments with squiggles. I understand that somebody can have fun by doing something illegal, it is adrenalin for them. But there are many other ways how to make something legal and have even more adrenalin.

Maybe my post looks off-topic now, but it is not.


Quote from: LastResort

And maby if you stopped for a while, read over the forums and cleared the fog of hate that covers your eyes you might see that their are some damn decent chaps on here! So try to see them as a person not a TK'ing fucktard like you do. Try talking about things that you like with us, you never know we might have the same interestes as you guys. Just try and be a little more open...

And why don't you try to be a little bit more open? More open to the other's opinions? Now I don't talk personally, I don't remember your nicks. I've read here that playing games is only virtual world without connection to real world, that Vietcong is dead game, that you can do whatever you want when you've bought the game, that admin who pays the server have no rights to kick you out etc. And when somebody else tried to tell you other opinion, tried to tell you that you are not right, what did you do? Did you open your eyes? No, you stayed in your own world.

What I would like to do is not stop you cheating, creating cheats, teamkilling etc. No. You can do whatever you want, you can do whatever brings you fun. I have no problem with it. But only till you start to bother somebody else who don't want it. Bothering somebody by ruining his game. Back to spayers comparison - bothering somebody by damaging his property.

I'm saying this again here - you can cheat, teamkill, no problem, it is your way of having fun. But create your own servers, name it for example "Server for cheaters and TKs" and have as much fun as you want, with players similar to you.
And second thing - I'm not talking in general, not about everybody who is in your community. I'm talking about the ones of you who use the cheats on other's server. And even locked server.
Maybe you don't have the fun by using the cheats and teamkilling. Maybe you are more similar to the illegal spayers and you have fun only when you use cheats to be better than somebody else who don't know you are cheating, maybe you have fun when you can teamkill somebody in normal serious game where nobody's expecting teamkilling. OK, I can understand even this. But use only open, public, non-passworded servers with no rules given and with no admin around. Is this problem for you? If yes, I have nothing more to discuss with you.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: M. O. on June 23, 2005, 01:19:55 am
Quote
Play On Your Own Servers

We do. As often as we can we run our own servers in order to test and distribute cheats, exploits, and other information. We also hold clan matches against the general public once a week (usually). However, limiting the use of our gameplay mechanics to our own servers would be pointless. Everyone involved would act in the same manner and use identical cheats. Since we are all from the same community, there would be no surprise or randomization to the matches, and as such would be just as dull as standard play.

Playing against other heckling communities would add replay value, but there are currently too few communities of such nature and even fewer servers that cater to hecklers. This tide seems to be changing with an ever-increasing interest in communities such as ours, but for the time being this prospect isn?t readily available. You see it?s the change in pattern that gives heckling such appeal. The redirection of focus and tempo that drives us. We enjoy breaking and recreating the rules; restricting ourselves to our own servers would not accomplish this goal.



Quote
You Are Ruining Other Peoples Fun

Or is it you who is allowing your fun to be ruined? How another player chooses to go about enjoying his or her copy of a game shouldn?t matter to someone who is a down to earth individual. In terms of cheats, if someone happens to be using an aimbot or wallhack so what? Continue playing the way you usually do, it isn?t as if your player?s character has been crippled in anyway so it should be immaterial to you. Many times players quit having fun in sight of hecklers because they cherish outdated gameplay to that of a holy grail. They don?t need to realize that there are other ways to derive pleasure from gaming than having the highest kill ratio.

Granted, there are exceptions, as heckling also evokes team killing, harassment, and general non-sense. As expected, such acts will cause some players to become irate. Admittedly we have a very egocentric view of online gaming, and this is where our ideologies with others clash. Our detractors insist that there is an unwritten and unified code of ethics to be followed amongst gamers; we do not share this belief. To us, the primary function of a game is enjoyment for the individual player, not to the gaming community as a whole.


Quote
All Hecklers Are twelve-Year-Olds/Script Kiddies/Punks/Terrorists/Whatever

And all Jews have big noses, all black people can?t see at night, and all Asians eat rice?give us a break. Stereotyping is a sad practice, online or off. The truth is the heckling community is a diverse group of individuals consisting of different ethnicities, ages, families, and social standings. You cannot accurately group together gaming hecklers anymore than you can group together the gaming community as a whole, or any other community for that manner. Remember, it wasn?t too long ago that all gamers (hecklers or not) were considered losers, void of any social life. Stereotyped people with thick horn rimmed glasses that had a bug collection and laughed with a snort. Over the years this negative image has shed away, and in time the same erroneous projection of hecklers will dissipate as well.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: LastResort on June 23, 2005, 02:30:58 am
I was gonna say owned.. but i think Mullah Omar just ended this conversation...
Title: Amazing!
Post by: TheHeckler! on June 23, 2005, 04:33:16 am
I was planning on making a longer post, but most of what needs to be said already has. Still, I'll respond to a few of your comment Nane.

Quote from: Nane_Nena
so, you think that because YOU bought a game, YOU may do ANYTHING you want with it on ANY server which ISN'T belonging to YOU?


For the most part, yes.

Quote

Right. Ok, here we go again. You buy a bike, you put it in my backyard, you say: it's my bike I may do whatever I like with it.. WRONG because you are putting in MY backyard.


You are comparing private real life property to a public online gaming server...poor comparison.


Quote

And I am getting quite annoyed at the moment about you guys so called philosophy.


Cry more n00b.

Quote
I repeat just once, I am the hoster (payer,builder,maintainer,etc), YOU are the player, and that makes me on MY server boss above you.


Wrong. No one is the "boss above me" on any server in any game, period.

Quote
You come on my property, you don't behave, I kick your ass, that's the way it works.


Fine, but I have ways of circumventing your kicks and bans, and I will...and that too is the way it works.

Quote

It's your game...copy..
You payed for the game ...copy..
You want to do whatever you like with the game (like cheating) ...copy..
You want to do whatever you like with the game (like cheating) on a server who isn't your own or where the stuff you do isn't tollerated ...WRONG..


Your opinion...the ability to proclaim it with diehard enthusiasm doesn't make it a fact.

Quote

You can ignore this all, as much as you like, but wake up, open your eyes and see the truth


Just because the words are typed through your keyboard, hardly makes them "truth".

Quote

you all make up some nice words and make it look nice, but still you are totally wrong.


Incorrect.

Quote

No matter if you are on a site, a server, a game, in somebodies house or club, you obey their rules, otherwise you get 'kicked out'.


Here you are correct, in general you will get kicked out for not obeying rules. But since we have the desire and ability to stay, we will do so for as long as we'd like and are able, despite your feelings on the matter.

Quote
You talk so much about people not respecting you, so you take actions... well, the problem is mainly that a few guys here do not respect 'us' as in how we play and what we do on our server, so you get kicked/banned.


Nane, trust us...we understand this simple equation even better than you do. The only problem is that this isn't the whole equation, things aren't always that simple...as previously stated, you admins won't always have the pleasure of getting rid of us.

Quote

And that is more valid than your point no matter what view you may have on this.


You couldn't be more wrong.

Quote

That's all I got to say, do whatever you like, run naked through your own home, go fingerpaint your own walls, but stay away from mine.


I'll go to any server I please. If it happens to be yours, I would appreciate it if you'd show me the courtesy of rolling out the red carpet and popping me a salute before I start having my fun.


Quote
oooh I love my ps'es so here's another one:
Besides the whole: "this is my server, and you have to respect my rules" part, the fact still remains that you guys put the pleasure of one man above any other or group of others. This is the highest point of selfishness and respectless behaviour and I hope you guys are so different in your 'reallives', like this head2000 guy states: I guess in reallife someone whould have already smashed your faces in...


Nearly incoherent, I won't bother with this one.

Quote

And hey, it's only pure immaturity that 'because you don't get direct
consequences by acting like this in the 'virtual world' ', you do it.


Ya got me...that's true. But just because you played forum shrink and called me out on it, doesn't mean I'm going to stop.

---

Here's the bottom line on the "who makes the rules debate", it depends on who's got the power. Normally the admin has this power, so naturally he makes the rules...doesn't mean for 1 second we're going to follow them, but he can make them.

However, if I have a cheat/hack/trick that can bypass his ability to kick me off his server, then I make the rules. During my RtCW days, I often managed to turn a normal playing server of 32 or even 64 into a teamkill feast on both sides. I did this one night on a popular server when the admin logged on and saw what was going on. He discovered I was behind it and kicked me...but I of course just returned a minute later.

I was very good at tricking players/admins into kicking the wrong person with name smurfing. When I returned, I called a kick vote against the admin and successfully got him kicked from his own server (very funny and satisfying btw). Some players thought he was actually me and kicked him by accident, some just hit "F1" to get the annoying kick vote off their screen asap, and others were hecklers like myself who wanted to heckle the server. We managed to do this 3 times before he stopped trying to kick the hecklers and instead begged us to stop. I told him if he stopped trying to kick us, We'd let him stay...he reluctantly agreed.

Since he was just about powerless to stop all the hecklers from causing havoc, his rules became null and void. He shortly thereafter left the server in disgust, then we took control. We had teamkill contests to see who could get the lowest score...hide the documents somewhere on the map and make others hunt you down...teach others how to fly using the Lt.'s air strike trick, and other random acts of craziness. The result? Well there were a few players like yourself Nane who insisted we "play right", but they quickly left after they noticed how futile their efforts were. The majority of players stayed and had a blast...many thanked me for the fun they had when they were about to quit playing the game.

In short, our little venture prolonged the gaming experience for dozens of players that night alone (and there were others, many others). And that sort of game rejuvenation for gamers justifies our gameplay style, or at least certain aspects of it.  

As far as the less altruistic motivations for why I do what I do?well simply put, I?m a selfish bastard.   :heckler1
Title: Amazing!
Post by: hoax-ravenheckler on June 23, 2005, 10:48:50 am
I think with this post the topic is nearly to his end.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 23, 2005, 12:24:21 pm
welll well well, I was on a quest, when I first joined here, that quest has most certainly ended, and quite positive I might say. You guys lived up to my expectations and all I ever thought was totally right.

I have not many words to say, not because I can't, but because I don't want. Why, it's a total timewaste, and yes, I know you like that.

Name it as you like, feel yourself cool and 'uber' the 'owner', the one who owns them all. Well I got news for you 'mate, no matter what you do, no matter what you try, you will at least not succeed on my servers.

Each has his own professions, or better said his passion. So I got my own. No matter what you will try on my servers, I will make sure it will not last for long. And now you thinking, 'you threatening me'? I can just say: one big LOL. It's no threat, it's a promise.

Too bad there are a lot of 'looser' admins, like in your example, because come on, what a looser. And it's no less than pathetic that he gives up his server because of a powerless feeling.

If you want to open people's eyes and make them view your way, invite them to your servers, make some advertisements. On my servers you will only be hated and hunted.

And I love the way you think you can bypass all security, well pal, as hopefully you know, server management doesn't end at the console. And not even on the same server..

Damn, I love my 'you talk like this, i'll talk like this' stuff!

This topic most certainly came to an end. Like you say, both sides have their own view. We can discuss hours about this part, and I am sure you will never surrender to at least one truth, the truth that it is someone else's server, blood sweat, tears, money, hours of work and above all it's that guy that 'owns' the server (and that is the real meaning of the word and not your word of 'owning' crap), so you don't have jack shit to say about that server. Reallife or virtuallife, maybe in ten years, we'll see if you finally came to realise, there is no difference, except the game it's self, which is virtual. All that is behind that... well, i'm not going to explain that again..

So, well, as a descent man I am; thanks for your 'time', it has been fun, who knows we meet again.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: ZOldDude on June 23, 2005, 01:19:57 pm
So did you want my help that I offered to you or did you only read the stuff by those argue'n with you?


Z
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Solomon on June 23, 2005, 01:32:26 pm
Quote from: TheHeckler!

You are comparing private real life property to a public online gaming server...poor comparison.

It's not so poor comparison as you think. Read again carefully my post and use your brain during the reading.
http://www.tkc-community.net/Forums/viewtopic.php?p=28500#28500

You still talk about virtual world. Yes, there is a virtual world, the soldiers we are controling are virtual, their blood is virtual, the trees are virtual, the buildings are virtual. But I'm real, my computer is real, server the game is running on is real (it is a real piece of HW), the fun I'm having is real (and the pain my soldier is having is virtual).
Your argument is that the server is public, that means everybody can see it on the server list, everybody can try to connect to it etc. Back to my comparison with basketball - the gym is public in this way too, everybody can see the building, everybody can try to open the door and come in. And the same way as with the server - somebody can try to hack to it (prise open the door). In the gym case it is prosecutable and not moral, I hope you agree with this. In the server case it is not prosecutable, but from your view it is not immoral?  Do you see it? Is it really co non-comparable for you?
Why so many people think that if it is possible to do something, they can do it. It's similar to SW piracy. Such gyus thinks, that if it is possible to copy/burn/download the SW, they can do it and they have no problems with it. But why aren't they copying and downloading for example cars too? Because car cannot be downloaded from internet. So they have to buy it. And they see it natural, cars have to be bought. But SW can be copied, so SW doesn't have to be bought. Is this right approach? Both, cars and SW cost money and work to make, both are sold for money to make some profit for the creator. The only problem SW have is that it can be copied.
I don't hope that anybody from TKC here understand what I wanted to say. You have very big problems with seeing coherences between more or less different things. And it is funny to hear "open your eyes" from somebody who has a bag on his head. So keep living in your virtual world, I will live in my real world. Maybe we will meet on some open public server with no rules, it will be no problem for me, I can leave the server and choose another. Maybe I'll play with you the who gets most teamkills game, if everybody on the server will play it. It that case teamkill is not bad, I agree. Why? Because then you have new rules and you are not bothering anybody. But when we meet on a special server, with rules, or even locked, which I cannot leave because there is no other, you will start a war.

Solomon.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 23, 2005, 01:48:49 pm
Quote from: ZOldDude
So did you want my help that I offered to you or did you only read the stuff by those argue'n with you?


Z


What can I say, you start 'sounding' like a nice guy now. But I guess, no, I have my own ways, and if there is something that there can be done somewhere, then I'll think that out myself.

I still do see you guys as a community as a whole, maybe not all as good or evil or how you want to put it but I am not going to fight a community, that supports it's members and ideology, on the one hand and on the other hand getting help from that same community. It's I guess.. a moral kind of thing.
And besides, I can't think about a thing that you could help me with, but maybe you can clarify that by yourself?
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 23, 2005, 02:27:10 pm
Since you guys have some trouble with your forums somehow, with search, debug, and some other stuff... I can't edit my post, so, a new one:

Was it about this part maybe?
Quote from: ZOldDude
PS: I think that I saw you invite people in the OFP section to come and TRY to deleat you from your own servers. I myself would not want to invite such troubles by giving permission to attempt this.

PPS: Would you please let me know on what DATE this started happing? I may be able to offer some insight.


Cause really, we will never be defeated, neither will we ever win. We don't play to be defeated or to win, at least not against eachother or against others in general. We don't want to be the best, neither the worst. We are who we are, we have fun, try to be friends, and try our best to improve ourselves, not for others, but for ourselves and fun. OFP, VC, whatever game, we will never play it in any other mode than coop (maybe some other modes for fun against eachother, no-ever to win), and then the fact remains, never for who is better or 'ownage' etc.

My sayings in the OFP forums are purely about: be my guest, if you think you can come and fuck up our games, and I can't do anything about it..well, be my guest :) Altough I don't want to provoce anything, I am not really afraid either.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: LastResort on June 23, 2005, 03:07:33 pm
Soooo, what are your servers called??

Quote
Each has his own professions, or better said his passion. So I got my own. No matter what you will try on my servers, I will make sure it will not last for long. And now you thinking, 'you threatening me'? I can just say: one big LOL. It's no threat, it's a promise.


I wish to hold you to that....

Plus, what did you hope to achive by comming here?! Did you hope to "make us see the light" or something?? I mean why stop something which makes us feel happy?!

Quote
I guess in reallife someone whould have already smashed your faces in...


And i've heard that all before.. now im not going off on any macho bullshit here. But why? Because i've heard people say..

"Mullah Omar, hes the one who started it. I wish i could meet him down a alley!"

Why so you can pull his/our pants down and fuck us up the ass!? Get real man.. if we see each other in the street were not gonna know whos who. We would/have probably walked past each other. And yes, i've had my face smashed in, i've had the shit beaten out of me.. but also beat the shit out of the other guys too.

So try not to makes threats to me about the virtual world and the real world. Oh, sorry sorry...
Quote
promises.


I just had to have my last say... im done with this one.

[edit by TheHeckler!] LR, try not to hit the reply button multiple times, you tripled posted this.  :wink:
Title: Amazing!
Post by: M. O. on June 23, 2005, 03:22:51 pm
Quote from: TheHeckler!
Here's the bottom line on the "who makes the rules debate", it depends on who's got the power. Normally the admin has this power, so naturally he makes the rules...doesn't mean for 1 second we're going to follow them, but he can make them.

However, if I have a cheat/hack/trick that can bypass his ability to kick me off his server, then I make the rules. During my RtCW days, I often managed to turn a normal playing server of 32 or even 64 into a teamkill feast on both sides. I did this one night on a popular server when the admin logged on and saw what was going on. He discovered I was behind it and kicked me...but I of course just returned a minute later.

I was very good at tricking players/admins into kicking the wrong person with name smurfing. When I returned, I called a kick vote against the admin and successfully got him kicked from his own server (very funny and satisfying btw). Some players thought he was actually me and kicked him by accident, some just hit "F1" to get the annoying kick vote off their screen asap, and others were hecklers like myself who wanted to heckle the server. We managed to do this 3 times before he stopped trying to kick the hecklers and instead begged us to stop. I told him if he stopped trying to kick us, We'd let him stay...he reluctantly agreed.

Since he was just about powerless to stop all the hecklers from causing havoc, his rules became null and void. He shortly thereafter left the server in disgust, then we took control. We had teamkill contests to see who could get the lowest score...hide the documents somewhere on the map and make others hunt you down...teach others how to fly using the Lt.'s air strike trick, and other random acts of craziness. The result? Well there were a few players like yourself Nane who insisted we "play right", but they quickly left after they noticed how futile their efforts were. The majority of players stayed and had a blast...many thanked me for the fun they had when they were about to quit playing the game.

In short, our little venture prolonged the gaming experience for dozens of players that night alone (and there were others, many others). And that sort of game rejuvenation for gamers justifies our gameplay style, or at least certain aspects of it.

As far as the less altruistic motivations for why I do what I do?well simply put, I?m a selfish bastard.


ROFL  :icon_laugh
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 23, 2005, 03:35:37 pm
Quote from: LastResort
...

I did come here to start a discussion and dialogue with 'you guys' to try and find out what your motivation is all for this, what kind of guys you really are, and why you really do it. The FAQ is just full of: We do what we like and thats it. So thats why I came here.

You are not very insightfull also you are blind, I never made a threat to no one here. About the smashing faces part, and that is where I base my "you are not very insightfull and blind" thing on, is that I made that as an example, in the way that you guys see the virtual world and real world as 2 different things, and the reason why, is IMHO that you guys know that you whould get your faces smashed in if you acted like this in the real world. And I guess that's why you do it in the virtual world, because there are no direct consequences, that is all.

And well, if you are talking about threats...well I am being threatend here that a few of you guys will come to our servers and show us that I am not boss there, by using hacks/cheats to circumvate bans, kicking the admin off instead the other way around and so on..., my promise is than to you that you will not succeed or at least not for long. That is not a threat, but a promise, but now I start repeating myself too much.

I hope many people read this thread, as it tells people a lot about the guys that wonder around on these forums. One is not always insightfull as others but at least a few guys around here hit the sweetspot.

As said before, I already know what I wanted to know. So thanks for your time.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Pure_666 on June 23, 2005, 04:17:52 pm
Damn school... cant post very long:p

Anyway, at LastResort(nice name btw, love the song:P)
I don't think all cheaters are lifeless dweebs, i don't think everyone that tries to do "the things you do at TKC" is a loser. Me myself like programming and hope to be skillfull at it one day. But i just don't understand how your view can be so clouded. I understand you wanna have fun... but why is it that you wan't to ruin it for someone else... Because that is what your saying here... got to go again:p
Btw, Mullah... i agree with you mostly... but then again, as stated earlier it depends on your view of things... and even though i don't always succeed... i try to view things of different angles... and i wish "people like LastResort(no i'm not stereo-typing)" could do that too more often...
Title: Amazing!
Post by: TheHeckler! on June 23, 2005, 09:49:03 pm
Quote from: Solomon
Quote from: TheHeckler!

You are comparing private real life property to a public online gaming server...poor comparison.

It's not so poor comparison as you think. Read again carefully my post and use your brain during the reading.
http://www.tkc-community.net/Forums/viewtopic.php?p=28500#28500


You still talk about virtual world. Yes, there is a virtual world, the soldiers we are controling are virtual, their blood is virtual, the trees are virtual, the buildings are virtual. But I'm real, my computer is real, server the game is running on is real (it is a real piece of HW), the fun I'm having is real (and the pain my soldier is having is virtual). Your argument is that the server is public, that means everybody can see it on the server list, everybody can try to connect to it etc. Back to my comparison with basketball - the gym is public in this way too, everybody can see the building, everybody can try to open the door and come in. And the same way as with the server - somebody can try to hack to it (prise open the door). In the gym case it is prosecutable and not moral, I hope you agree with this. In the server case it is not prosecutable, but from your view it is not immoral?  Do you see it? Is it really co non-comparable for you?


We are talking about two different things...I'm referring to public servers only, which are more akin to a public park (as someone already compared) while private servers (what you're talking about) more closely resemble your "backyard" or "gym". And while "using my brain" I have determined on that basis, it is still a poor comparison...if you would do the same you would probably notice this as well.

Quote
Why so many people think that if it is possible to do something, they can do it. It's similar to SW piracy. Such gyus thinks, that if it is possible to copy/burn/download the SW, they can do it and they have no problems with it. But why aren't they copying and downloading for example cars too? Because car cannot be downloaded from internet. So they have to buy it. And they see it natural, cars have to be bought. But SW can be copied, so SW doesn't have to be bought. Is this right approach? Both, cars and SW cost money and work to make, both are sold for money to make some profit for the creator. The only problem SW have is that it can be copied.


Cars have physical moving parts that require raw materials, labor to contruct, and costs in logistics to bring to the consumer. When someone steals a car, there is a direct loss to the company. In terms of SW this isn't always the case...there are many programs that I've pirated that I would have never bought in a store if I couldn't burn them for free, I would have simply done without. Since I would have never bought the software, music, etc. and didn't actually steal any materials, the company suffered no such loss. Yes, piracy on a larger scale costs copyright holders money, beacuse there are many people who pirate SW who would otherwise pay for it, which is another matter altogether.


Quote
I don't hope that anybody from TKC here understand what I wanted to say. You have very big problems with seeing coherences between more or less different things. And it is funny to hear "open your eyes" from somebody who has a bag on his head. So keep living in your virtual world, I will live in my real world.


Once again, your ability to proudly proclaim your point of view (no matter how skewed) does not make it the correct one. We have our own views on such matters, and none of them require your approval, or the approval of anyone else for that matter.


Quote
Maybe we will meet on some open public server with no rules, it will be no problem for me, I can leave the server and choose another. Maybe I'll play with you the who gets most teamkills game, if everybody on the server will play it


You'd be surprised how much fun it can be.


Quote
But when we meet on a special server, with rules, or even locked, which I cannot leave because there is no other, you will start a war.


I've started many such wars, I revel in them.  :wink:
Title: Amazing!
Post by: LastResort on June 23, 2005, 09:50:31 pm
I like 666  :D

Quote
i try to view things of different angles... and i wish "people like LastResort(no i'm not stereo-typing)" could do that too more often...


Ok heres my history:
Bought VC
Played VC like all the others
That was untill i joined this site. I knew that this site was around, but i never thought of joining. I once hated TKC.. i also to wanted to meet Mullar in the street...

BUT then i joined.. and found out that Mullar was a PERSON.. i once viewed these people as JUST cheaters not PEOPLE! But these people are nice guys. So 666, i don't have any fog over my eyes. I once viewed from all the other angles other than TKC's angle... now im on the angle that TKC see's from. And it's great! I think you would fit in nicly here... why not join for a bit, play like we do.. heckle like we do... it's fun!

 :D
Title: Amazing!
Post by: TheHeckler! on June 23, 2005, 09:52:36 pm
To add to LR's comment, let me point out that nearly everyone here at TKC was once a "normal" gamer at one time (myself included). So, believe it or not, we can "see the other side" much better than most gamers think...it's just that we choose this one.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: [TKC]thejoker on June 23, 2005, 11:12:57 pm
I dont understand why people complain about cheaters/tkers whatever ruining other peoples fun. DO WE GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT OTHER PEOPLES FUN?Nope, and why should we.

 Think about it, why should you care about other people you will never MEET or SPEAK TO or whatever? People donate to charity because of others they will never meet, because it is a real life situation, however peoples fun in a game ISNT.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: hoax-ravenheckler on June 23, 2005, 11:12:07 pm
This last thing counts for me aswell.
I've played for nearly 4 years gaming without any cheating community.
Now I do, but I still play cheat-free.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Pure_666 on June 23, 2005, 11:40:25 pm
Heckler... it's people like you i dispise... i know you will probably never meet the people but can't you show this little bit of respect..?

And i am definitly not saying that all hackers are 12 year old dweeby poptarts(:P)... i think they can be normal people as much as any person... I think of cheaters/tkers as people... i just look at them from a different way because of my point of view... my point of view is: Cheating is ok, as long as you dont terribly bother someone else(unless that someone is just a loser:P)

And i'd really like to meet Mullah IRL, but not to beat him, no he seems like a real nice and serious person for as far as i can see... if he acts the same as he posts... he could be a very nice person...

[Edit by TheHeckler!] Sorry pure, I accidently hit "edit" instead of "reply" on your post...I managed to save most of it intact fortunately.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: TheHeckler! on June 24, 2005, 02:48:39 am
Pure,

Your source (Hoax) gave you some false information about me. I can count on one hand how many forum posters I've banned in the time i've been with TKC, and still have 1 or 2 left over. I may call for a banning on someone occasionally if they make an ass out of themselves, but I usually leave that up to M.O., since he usually has more background info on the person than I do. Just to make it clear, I haven't banned anyone in this topic...haven't called for anyone posting in this topic to be banned, and unless something changes, I don't intend to.  :wink:
Title: Amazing!
Post by: TheHeckler! on June 24, 2005, 03:01:52 am
Sorry to double post...just realized I didn't answer your question, pure.

Quote
Heckler... it's people like you i dispise... i know you will probably never meet the people but can't you show this little bit of respect..?


That depends on what you mean by respect. Although I am firm in my views on heckling, I believe I've been respectful to every detractor in this thread, despite their views about TKC. If by respect you mean don't TK, cheat, and annoy people in game...then no, that's very unlikely to ever happen. :wink:

Quote
And i'd really like to meet Mullah IRL, but not to beat him, no he seems like a real nice and serious person for as far as i can see... if he acts the same as he posts... he could be a very nice person...


Many of us are decent chaps IRL...no one ever said our RL personas had to match our gaming ones. If that where the case with me, I would have been thrown in prison or killed a long time ago. :heckler1
Title: Amazing!
Post by: LastResort on June 24, 2005, 03:45:02 am
Quote from: TheHeckler!
Many of us are decent chaps IRL...no one ever said our RL personas had to match our gaming ones. If that where the case with me, I would have been thrown in prison or killed a long time ago. :heckler1


Lol same here.. altho i do tend to "heckle" in real life.. like today.. i was driving doing the speed limit.. and some nutter of a woman come up behind me right up my ass.. so i keep my speed... slow down.. speed up.. brake a little.. :lol: . I could see her in my rear view mirror.. boy was she shouting insults at me! Then it came to my turn off so i pull over really really slowly! LMAO.. now im just pissing my pants with laughter here.. so she pulls past and we lock eyes. So just to piss her off a little more i give her a wink and turn off! Ah funny...

Another good un is if your with a few of your mates just crusin in a car.. and you pass people facing you. Then you all just point at them and look shocked.. LMAO! Just to see the looks on the peoples faces is great.. just dont do it by trafic lights! :lol: Their are many other ways to piss off people that i can recommend aswell! :lol:

A little OT but sorry... :wink:
Title: Amazing!
Post by: TheHeckler! on June 24, 2005, 06:37:26 am
Quote from: LastResort
Quote from: TheHeckler!
Many of us are decent chaps IRL...no one ever said our RL personas had to match our gaming ones. If that where the case with me, I would have been thrown in prison or killed a long time ago. :heckler1


Lol same here.. altho i do tend to "heckle" in real life.. like today.. i was driving doing the speed limit.. and some nutter of a woman come up behind me right up my ass.. so i keep my speed... slow down.. speed up.. brake a little.. :lol: . I could see her in my rear view mirror.. boy was she shouting insults at me! Then it came to my turn off so i pull over really really slowly! LMAO.. now im just pissing my pants with laughter here.. so she pulls past and we lock eyes. So just to piss her off a little more i give her a wink and turn off! Ah funny...

Another good un is if your with a few of your mates just crusin in a car.. and you pass people facing you. Then you all just point at them and look shocked.. LMAO! Just to see the looks on the peoples faces is great.. just dont do it by trafic lights! :lol: Their are many other ways to piss off people that i can recommend aswell! :lol:

A little OT but sorry... :wink:


I've done that a few times...high beams at night work well too. :wink:
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Pure_666 on June 24, 2005, 10:30:16 am
I know, high beams at night owns...

I'm not saying cheating/tk-ing can't be fun... i'm just saying that why can't you go to servers where it is allowed... usually in those people there are non cheating/tk-ing players too, so the fun you get out of annoying people you can get there too...
And about the IRL part... except [TKC]Advanced_Soldier i would like to meet everyone
Title: Amazing!
Post by: TheHeckler! on June 24, 2005, 11:11:14 am
Quote
I'm not saying cheating/tk-ing can't be fun... i'm just saying that why can't you go to servers where it is allowed ... usually in those people there are non cheating/tk-ing players too, so the fun you get out of annoying people you can get there too...


4 reasons...

1. There are very few servers that identify themselves as such.

2. I don't like to restrict myself on the number/types of servers I play on.

3. Many times having other hecklers on the server I'm playing on reduces the fun factor for me (but not always); usually I like to heckle solo.

4. I disagree with your last statement (which sorta makes my first 3 reasons a moot point). For the extremely small number of servers that allow cheats and expliots, it's very unlikely that many players will get annoyed. I mean, if such things bothered them, why would they join a server that catered to cheaters?
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Solomon on June 24, 2005, 01:22:51 pm
Right now you admit that to have fun you need to annoy somebody.From previous posts I thought that you have fun by trying cheats, by playing with cheats from time to time to bring something new to the game, by teamkilling to bring something new to the game.

Although I don't agree with it, it looked a little bit less negative. I thought that the bothering part was only unwanted but unfortunately inevitable. Now I see I was getting bad opinion to you again.What you really need for fun is just bothering somebody else. Obviously not everybody in TKC is like that, but TheHackler (TKC admin ....) is.Why are you telling lies here? Vindicating yourselfs and blaming ourselfs for a lack of tolerance?


This discussion goes to nowhere (in fact it has been going to nowhere from the beginning). Somebody from TKC says something and then somebody else from TKC says something different. You are individualities with different views and attitudes, that's natural. But you act as a group, as a community. Of course, some of your members are not bad and annoying, but others are.

Conclusion: I was able to accept the fact, that you are not so bad as I thought, that you try cheats and TKs just for fun and annoying other people is just inevitable.
Not I see that for at least some of you (including admin) is annoying other players the main thing, the essential thing. In my eyes you (TKC as a collective, sorry but it's true that the worst parts of system determine the whole system) are again the same you were before.

That's everything from me, not that I want to have the last word, you can react as you want, but I already know what I wanted to know. hope we will never meet again.

[edit by TheHeckler!] I wish the edit and quote buttons weren't so damn close together...once again I think I saved most of this post. Sorry for the screw up.  :oops:
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 24, 2005, 04:49:00 pm
Right on Solomon. I have to go here completely with Solomon.

My addition: It is not more than sad that you guys are like this. The reasons why? I guess I Explained that more than enough in my previous posts. You guys almost look like some kind of belief with this M O guy as your god. Soooo 1500's (and before).

Maybe when you guys grow older you realise that all this is just bullshit, I guess it's a part of growing up, altough my thoughts were that all of you all are already risen above puberty, I guess I was wrong.

Have fun doing with what you do, I keep on doing what I do, but you will at least not have any respect from me (and I guess a whole bunch more). Not that that means anything to you, I know. You don't do it for respect, altough everyone here is giving eachother respect for the 'cool' heckling one made possible or one has pulled off. Whatever, if you wanna be like that, be like that.

I hope I have been as annoying to you guys as you have been to me, altough I can't really say I am annoyed, maybe just a bit, but I guess I have a more 'sad' feeling about this. You guys are lost.

Ciao and have fun being a kid in their height(s) of puberty. I do feel sorry for you guys pathetic life.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: hoax-ravenheckler on June 24, 2005, 05:04:05 pm
Quote from: TheHeckler!
Pure,

Your source (Hoax) gave you some false information about me.


I haven't gave him any information however.
I just told him that I'd liked they way you said somethings.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: hoax-ravenheckler on June 24, 2005, 05:06:10 pm
I wouldn't mind meeting anyone.
I think if there would be any TKC meeting nearny I would definitly come and join.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: ZOldDude on June 24, 2005, 07:49:51 pm
A community yes....

All acting/thinking the same in some sort of robotic stupor no.

Z
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Pure_666 on June 24, 2005, 07:56:25 pm
I'd never wanna meet HoaX:p

Nane, in the beginning of the topic i agreed with you, but you keep getting more childish... i myself see no fun in annoying other people(IRL i do:P)but these people do, so if you disagree with them it doesn't mean your right... Your the childish person here...
Thinkin everything you say is right and everone who doesn't agree with you is immature...
TheHeckler... so now your saying that you just do this to annoy people, because you don't have fun when people don't get annoyed or someone else is joining you in annoying... see that, in my opinion is hopeless(sorry, the word hopeless is stated like that in Dutch, i translated it litterally... don't know what it would be in English:P)
Title: Amazing!
Post by: LastResort on June 24, 2005, 09:12:00 pm
Quote from: Nane_Nena
Maybe when you guys grow older you realise that all this is just bullshit, I guess it's a part of growing up, altough my thoughts were that all of you all are already risen above puberty, I guess I was wrong.

Ciao and have fun being a kid in their height(s) of puberty. I do feel sorry for you guys pathetic life.


Come on man.. you know that everything you have said here is pointless. So now your just trying to get personal.. and about growing up. What are we talking about here?! A GAME! Now i think all of us TKC guys have been pretty calm here. But get a life man, your the one who is getting wound up!

Quote
I hope I have been as annoying to you guys as you have been to me, altough I can't really say I am annoyed, maybe just a bit, but I guess I have a more 'sad' feeling about this. You guys are lost.


Im not annoyed by you.. any one else annoyed here?? *listens..* No, oh good! The we have just sucsseded in annoying you.. And don't be sad man.. im always here for you if you need some one to talk to.. or just a nice big hug! :lol:

Quote
You guys are lost.


Im not lost.. i found my way he.. oh wait i know what your saying! We are not lost, nor have we fallen, nor sucummed or anything like that. We found our way here... found the happyness that TKC brings us.. AND THE ULTIMATE POWER.. OH GOD THE POWER RUSHING THROUGH MY VIENS! ITS AWSOME!!!!

Oh sorry...

Quote
You guys almost look like some kind of belief with this M O guy as your god.


So Mullar are we still good for that back and foot massage later? I have that ice cream you asked for too sir!  :lol:

IMO: Pure_666 rocks... and Nane_Nena sucks cocks!

Im kidding with ya man... :wink:
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 24, 2005, 10:22:24 pm
Quote from: Pure_666
I'd never wanna meet HoaX:p

Nane, in the beginning of the topic i agreed with you, but you keep getting more childish... i myself see no fun in annoying other people(IRL i do:P)but these people do, so if you disagree with them it doesn't mean your right... Your the childish person here...
Thinkin everything you say is right and everone who doesn't agree with you is immature...
TheHeckler... so now your saying that you just do this to annoy people, because you don't have fun when people don't get annoyed or someone else is joining you in annoying... see that, in my opinion is hopeless(sorry, the word hopeless is stated like that in Dutch, i translated it litterally... don't know what it would be in English:P)

Well, if you'd read all my previous posts and their answers, then you whould know why I call them immature. Neglecting the whole fact that the servers are paid with real money, and is real hardware, and all that is real, and everything else I said, especially the part of saying: well we don't care because there is nothing you can do about it, or things like who cares that it is your server, we do whatever we like. THAT is imho just pure immature, however you want to put it. I am not going to repeat myself any longer, read the posts carefully, read the answers, and yes IMHO if you still think that I am the immature one, and they are so right...Well. Very sad again.

I don't really care when I am wrong, cause I am happy to admit it if i'm wrong, but I am sure here that I am totally right about the whole realworld <--> virtual world thingy and that they should stay away from others property if the owner doesnt want them there. See it as you want to see it but THAT is the way the world works and not the other way around. No laws doesn't mean that there are no moral rules, which counts for both 'worlds' putting it your ways...

Still a game is a game, its fictional, virtual. But the server where it is played on, the people, etc, they are real. (and no I don't mean the ingame characters...)

Some of you somehow lost my whole point, I am not bothering to start all over again, if you are interested, read it again. My points are mostly answered by: we don't care and mainly spinned around them to bring up other things.

Like said before, if you want to be like this, be like this, I won't bother you again. My statement stays: you guys are lost.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: [TKC]Anothercheater on June 24, 2005, 10:28:31 pm
If the owner doesnt want certain ppls, then he can password the server or kick them at any time  :P
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Solomon on June 24, 2005, 11:45:09 pm
Quote from: anothercheater
If the owner doesnt want certain ppls, then he can password the server or kick them at any time  :P

Oh, somebody's just woken up.  :roll:  What do you think we are still talking about?
Title: Amazing!
Post by: ZOldDude on June 24, 2005, 11:48:12 pm
Quote from: Solomon
Quote from: anothercheater
If the owner doesnt want certain ppls, then he can password the server or kick them at any time  :P

Oh, somebody's just woken up.  :roll:  What do you think we are still talking about?


I thought you guys/gals came here to complain the "TKC guys" wer cracking your server passwords and entering locked servers to mess your hobby up.

That was what was said is it not?

Z
Title: Amazing!
Post by: TheHeckler! on June 25, 2005, 03:04:15 am
Quote
Right now you admit that to have fun you need to annoy somebody.


Not exactly, I can and do sometimes have fun without bothering other players. But I usually gain more enjoyment, more often, by these means...heir go, its how I play *most* of the time.

Quote
From previous posts I thought that you have fun by trying cheats, by playing with cheats from time to time to bring something new to the game, by teamkilling to bring something new to the game.


I play for these reasons as well...sometimes it's to try something new; other times I really do enjoy helping "normal" players to try TKC's style of gameplay. When I'm not heckling for one of these reasons, then I'm usually just doing it for personal entertainment. You may chastise me if you wish, but this is just the type of player I am.


Quote
Although I don't agree with it, it looked a little bit less negative. I thought that the bothering part was only unwanted but unfortunately inevitable. Now I see I was getting bad opinion to you again.


Sorry to disappoint you.


Quote
What you really need for fun is just bothering somebody else. Obviously not everybody in TKC is like that, but TheHackler (TKC admin ....) is.


Correct, although I am an admin, my personal gaming habits do not reflect on the entire community...we all play at least slightly differently, some of us more so than others.

Quote
Why are you telling lies here? Vindicating yourselfs and blaming ourselfs for a lack of tolerance?


Of what lies do you speak of? I believe I have been totally upfront and honest about how I play, and why I play the way I do. I haven't made any excuses for myself on a personal level other than "I'm a selfish bastard"...I don't see how that makes me a liar.

If you are talking about TKC as a whole, then as we have already stated in this thread (and in the FAQ) our aim is to prolong the game experience. The goal is focused on the individual, thus upsetting other players may be necessary. I don't think anyone here is "blaming" you guys, it's just how we choose to play...We're not trying to make ourselves out to be the victim here, we know we're not.

Quote
This discussion goes to nowhere (in fact it has been going to nowhere from the beginning). Somebody from TKC says something and then somebody else from TKC says something different. You are individualities with different views and attitudes, that's natural. But you act as a group, as a community. Of course, some of your members are not bad and annoying, but others are.


It seems you are suggesting that we are contracting ourselves, yet if you carefully read the format of those few sentences, you will see that you in fact contradict yourself.

 
Quote
Conclusion: I was able to accept the fact, that you are not so bad as I thought, that you try cheats and TKs just for fun and annoying other people is just inevitable.
Not I see that for at least some of you (including admin) is annoying other players the main thing, the essential thing. In my eyes you (TKC as a collective, sorry but it's true that the worst parts of system determine the whole system) are again the same you were before.


And that's ok...personally I'm glad you took the time to have your questions answered and get a little more insight from the heckler populous. You have a better understanding of why we do what we do...and in that aim we succeeded. TKC is not out to attempt and alter the thinking of thousands of gamers...we're out to recruit those who already play the way we do or at least give it a try.


Quote
That's everything from me, not that I want to have the last word, you can react as you want, but I already know what I wanted to know. hope we will never meet again.


Thank you for choosing TKC Embassy Suites...we hope you'll come back and see us soon!  :heckler1
Title: Amazing!
Post by: ZOldDude on June 25, 2005, 05:18:17 am
Quote:
Somebody from TKC says something and then somebody else from TKC says something different. You are individualities with different views and attitudes, that's natural. But you act as a group, as a community. Of course, some of your members are not bad and annoying, but others are.
888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888

It is all about personal freedom to find fun.

Some cheat,some don't.
Some wear silly "hats" some don't.

Some fly in the air,walk under ground,hide inside rocks,move objects around,team kill,super jump,bullet-vest,ammo cheat,wallhack,wire frame,weapon mod,spam flood,skin hack,speed hack,breath under water...start-fart-stumble-stall...

.....and some don't.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Pure_666 on June 25, 2005, 11:36:06 am
Thanks LR:)

And Nane, most people see you point of view, can understand why you think that way, but just don't agree... and you see other people's point of view... but just disagree because you think your right, i don't care about the starting conversation anymore, this is about you being a selfcentered prick who think's he's a friggin genius.
Asswipe!
Title: Amazing!
Post by: ZOldDude on June 25, 2005, 11:59:52 am
As a member of the TKC Staff I offered to help you with the problem you started off here with.....people hacking your passworded servers.

If you don't want that help no skin off my back.

The offer is time lmt'd and the clock is ticking...I am an old man and don't have alot of time to jerk around and your cutting into my beer time.

Z
Title: Amazing!
Post by: TheHeckler! on June 25, 2005, 12:34:30 pm
Quote from: Pure_666
Thanks LR:)

And Nane, most people see you point of view, can understand why you think that way, but just don't agree... and you see other people's point of view... but just disagree because you think your right, i don't care about the starting conversation anymore, this is about you being a selfcentered prick who think's he's a friggin genius.
Asswipe!


very well put.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: TheHeckler! on June 25, 2005, 12:35:30 pm
Quote from: ZOldDude
As a member of the TKC Staff I offered to help you with the problem you started off here with.....people hacking your passworded servers.

If you don't want that help no skin off my back.

The offer is time lmt'd and the clock is ticking...I am an old man and don't have alot of time to jerk around and your cutting into my beer time.

Z


One of the funniest things you've ever posted Z.  :lol:
Title: Amazing!
Post by: ZOldDude on June 25, 2005, 12:47:15 pm
Quote from: TheHeckler!
Quote from: ZOldDude
As a member of the TKC Staff I offered to help you with the problem you started off here with.....people hacking your passworded servers.

If you don't want that help no skin off my back.

The offer is time lmt'd and the clock is ticking...I am an old man and don't have alot of time to jerk around and your cutting into my beer time.

Z


One of the funniest things you've ever posted Z.  :lol:


Damn!

You know me and my beer.

Screw them if they want to skirt around the start of this topic....I gotz beers calling me!

Z
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Pure_666 on June 26, 2005, 12:47:10 am
Quote from: ZOldDude

You know me and my beer.

Beer? Bear? Boar?
No, it's BEEEEEEEER :shock:  :twisted:  :evil:
Title: Amazing!
Post by: [TKC]BlueGrass on June 26, 2005, 03:39:57 pm
Beer suck- give me wine any day

Wiiiiiiiiinnneee
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Nane_Nena on June 27, 2005, 03:19:14 pm
Quote from: ZOldDude
As a member of the TKC Staff I offered to help you with the problem you started off here with.....people hacking your passworded servers.

If you don't want that help no skin off my back.

The offer is time lmt'd and the clock is ticking...I am an old man and don't have alot of time to jerk around and your cutting into my beer time.

Z


:) I came here to ask your help because of you guys hacking into my servers, circumvating passwords and bans? Is that what I came here for?
Lol, I got my tools, skills and so on, to keep you guys out or at least to make your jerney not too long on our servers.

I came here, as said before, to start the dialogue with 'you guys' to understand the idealogy of TKC, and to confront you guys, 'verbally', on your own playing ground instead of on some server.

I never met anyone of you guys on my servers, that's for sure, I did have a report of one of your guys or one of the guys using 'your' tools to circumvate normal bans because the nickname was longer than supported by the vc server. That doesn't mean I come moaning about that or that I am in need of your or anybodies help.

As said before, I came here to start the dialogue with the people that are said to be the biggest assholes in the world; aka cheaters. Everwhere where people come from, always the same message: Our games got messed up by cheaters. I always played on server X, but now its full of cheaters. Now I tried playing at server Y and there are always fuckers that get banned/kicked but they come back and mess up the games even further.

The whole point is, you may do whatever you like, when you like, as long as you do it at home, in your own server, and as long as you also respect others instead of being ego-centered "my own fun above anyone" (at least, thats the way it works if you intend to play on somebodies server...)

Besides, I like a good discussion, at least, when there are valid points from both sides, and IMHO that's not really what's happening here. As I said before, see it how you like, but I don't take you  or anybody serious who says: I don't care I do what I want. I mean, come on, wake up!

Oh and Pure_666, you sneaky little B...Everyone can follow the group, lick assess and act big, maybe try starting to think for yourself instead of being a lemming.

The last post I make here. Guess I said that to myself a few more times. Guess you guys are still able to come up with loads of bullshit so I still have to reply... Who knows..
Title: Amazing!
Post by: hoax-ravenheckler on June 27, 2005, 06:52:41 pm
Welll fuck off then.
You haven't had any proof one of TKC did this.
If I would play with the name Nane_Nena I wouldn't be you would I?
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Pure_666 on June 27, 2005, 08:28:20 pm
Nane, go suck your mothers vibrating ... there isnt a big group doing that, seeing you don't like to be in groups... i think your just some friendless little bitch that lives on the internet...EDITED

Z EDIT....this was just too over the top. I hate having to edit things so do me a favor and read the forum rules.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: ZOldDude on June 27, 2005, 09:18:03 pm
Quote from: Nane_Nena
Quote from: ZOldDude
As a member of the TKC Staff I offered to help you with the problem you started off here with.....people hacking your passworded servers.

If you don't want that help no skin off my back.

The offer is time lmt'd and the clock is ticking...I am an old man and don't have alot of time to jerk around and your cutting into my beer time.

Z


:) I came here to ask your help because of you guys hacking into my servers, circumvating passwords and bans? Is that what I came here for?
Lol, I got my tools, skills and so on, to keep you guys out or at least to make your jerney not too long on our servers.

I came here, as said before, to start the dialogue with 'you guys' to understand the idealogy of TKC, and to confront you guys, 'verbally', on your own playing ground instead of on some server.

I never met anyone of you guys on my servers, that's for sure, I did have a report of one of your guys or one of the guys using 'your' tools to circumvate normal bans because the nickname was longer than supported by the vc server. That doesn't mean I come moaning about that or that I am in need of your or anybodies help.

As said before, I came here to start the dialogue with the people that are said to be the biggest assholes in the world; aka cheaters. Everwhere where people come from, always the same message: Our games got messed up by cheaters. I always played on server X, but now its full of cheaters. Now I tried playing at server Y and there are always fuckers that get banned/kicked but they come back and mess up the games even further.

The whole point is, you may do whatever you like, when you like, as long as you do it at home, in your own server, and as long as you also respect others instead of being ego-centered "my own fun above anyone" (at least, thats the way it works if you intend to play on somebodies server...)

Besides, I like a good discussion, at least, when there are valid points from both sides, and IMHO that's not really what's happening here. As I said before, see it how you like, but I don't take you  or anybody serious who says: I don't care I do what I want. I mean, come on, wake up!

Oh and Pure_666, you sneaky little B...Everyone can follow the group, lick assess and act big, maybe try starting to think for yourself instead of being a lemming.

The last post I make here. Guess I said that to myself a few more times. Guess you guys are still able to come up with loads of bullshit so I still have to reply... Who knows..


1)Yes you said "TKC" was cracking/bypassing your closed server passwords.

2) Yes you see me in your server(s) all the time...you just do not know what nick I use. I follow your rules and yes I have your passwords each week and no I do not pass them about.

So as you have your own tools and do not want my help then I can go back to enjoying my beer.

Offer recalled.

Z
Title: Amazing!
Post by: Pure_666 on June 27, 2005, 11:49:00 pm
I know the rules, and sorry Z, but i can't stand that (...)(...)(...)(...)(...)(...)(...)(...)(...)(...)(...)(...)

Was that better?:P
Title: Amazing!
Post by: ZOldDude on June 28, 2005, 01:49:10 am
Quote from: Pure_666
I know the rules, and sorry Z, but i can't stand that (...)(...)(...)(...)(...)(...)(...)(...)(...)(...)(...)(...)

Was that better?:P


Cool....way cool.
Title: Amazing!
Post by: TheHeckler! on June 28, 2005, 03:41:19 am
This thread is quickly becoming a train wreck, locked.
Title: Re: Amazing!
Post by: ZOldDude on February 22, 2016, 09:17:53 pm
Ah...the memories.

I love reading 11 year old posts.

All these people,groups and organizations are all long gone yet TKC is still strong and alive!  :icon_magician